Next Gen - The Verdict

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pogo
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by pogo »

arron wrote:Now they're claiming that it will be moving calculations off your local XBox onto the cloud to boost the power of your console. Now I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the network latency of doing this will be far in excess of doing the same work locally on your processor cores and local memory.
There are many things this could be used for. It's how Siri works on your iOS device for example, so voice recognition. Another idea is simulating a large game world; if this were done in the cloud it would mean worlds could be endlessly scaleable. What you see is limited by draw distance but the world goes out far beyond and stuff is loaded only as it comes into view, so a few ms delay won't be noticeable. Or in a multiplayer game's single player mode the AI bots could be in the cloud, running very sophisticated AI that doesn't task your console – their latency could be managed like regular players in multiplayer.

The interesting thing is what incentives will there be for developers. Developers could already do this if they wanted, offloading tasks to servers. But they'd have to deal with the cost, the complexity, performance/latency and how to handle not being online, and so rarely if ever bother. Presumably MS will offer solutions to some or all of these.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by axel000 »

fog wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:But how do they do to get/set the channels/info/etc. ? They do need some way to communicate/integrate with the
"external devices" ? Did they reverse engineered the remote controls and use infrared to talk to the Sky/Virgin/etc. boxes ?
I think you can communicate over HDMI so the XBox could control your cable box that way.
Nope, the specs I read earlier today indicated it has HDMI pass-through for the video and an "ir blaster" for the channel commands. Yes that is as backward as you think it is. Remember those little IR lights on wires they sold with Windows "media center" PCs in the 1990s, that tried to send a remote signal to the cable box's IR receiver, with massive lag, yes, that.

Will see if I can find where I read it this afternoon.

Edit : Haven't found the original reference yet but this article actually explains it better. Apparently some very recent cable boxes will take a channel signal over HDMI, but most kit won't:
The problem is that the demoes weren't real — the Xbox One's TV integration is the same familiar nightmare we've known for nearly 20 years now. Instead of actually integrating with your TV service, the One sits on top of it: you plug your cable box's HDMI cable into the Xbox, which overlays the signal with its own interface. If you're lucky enough to own a newer cable box, you'll get to change channels directly through the HDMI connection, but most people will find themselves using the One's included IR blaster to control their cable or satellite boxes — a failure-prone one-way communication system that stubbornly refuses to die.

If this sounds familiar to you, it's because it's exactly the same way Google's flailing Google TV platform works. (Google TV even had an NBA demo when it launched in 2011.) If you're a little older it should be even more familiar: it's exactly how Microsoft's own doomed webTV platform worked. We've been overlaying fancy interfaces on top of cable signals and praying for IR blasters to adequately control the boxes for years now, and it's never worked — the content and information on your cable box is too valuable to relegate it to second place, and jumping back and forth between interfaces is irritating and stupid.

What's more, these systems only really work for live television, which you probably aren't watching. Want to watch a show recorded on your DVR? There's no way for the Xbox One to know about it, so you have to use the DVR interface. Found a great show using the One's search and discovery tools and want to record the season? Time to switch to the DVR interface again. IR blaster miss a channel change? The One's guide and channel bar will show different information than the cable box. The cable box is the canonical interface for television, and every attempt to usurp or overlay it has failed.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

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arron wrote:Now they're claiming that it will be moving calculations off your local XBox onto the cloud to boost the power of your console.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by gilesgoat »

pogo wrote:
arron wrote:Now they're claiming that it will be moving calculations off your local XBox onto the cloud to boost the power of your console. Now I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the network latency of doing this will be far in excess of doing the same work locally on your processor cores and local memory.
There are many things this could be used for. It's how Siri works on your iOS device for example, so voice recognition. Another idea is simulating a large game world; if this were done in the cloud it would mean worlds could be endlessly scaleable. What you see is limited by draw distance but the world goes out far beyond and stuff is loaded only as it comes into view, so a few ms delay won't be noticeable. Or in a multiplayer game's single player mode the AI bots could be in the cloud, running very sophisticated AI that doesn't task your console – their latency could be managed like regular players in multiplayer.

The interesting thing is what incentives will there be for developers. Developers could already do this if they wanted, offloading tasks to servers. But they'd have to deal with the cost, the complexity, performance/latency and how to handle not being online, and so rarely if ever bother. Presumably MS will offer solutions to some or all of these.
Wasn't the same kind of thing that the Cell processor in the PS3 was claiming capable to do but nobody ever done ?

I think the idea is a bit like things like "Seti at home" or such, theorectically and even practically feaseable for certain
kind of problems.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by axel000 »

More on the used game thing in this contradictory article:
Installing a used game on your Xbox One will not require a fee, says Microsoft corporate vice president Phil Harrison. At least, not exactly.

Speaking with Kotaku, Harrison expounded on data already gleaned from Official Xbox Magazine, that Xbox One games must be registered with a single-use code tied to the player's account. To install the game data on another Xbox One, the owner of the new machine pays the game's list price on Xbox Live.

"The bits that are on that disc, you can give it to your friend and they can install it on an Xbox One," says Harrison. "They would then have to purchase the right to play that game through Xbox Live."

With the physical game discs essentially worthless without an activation code, this may have profound implications on the used games market.

Harrison also hinted at an additional feature to be explored later, which would allow players to trade and sell their games -- or rather, the right to play them -- through Xbox Live. Details on that will presumably arrive close to or during E3 in a matter of weeks.
So yes, you can be an idiot and buy this console and buy a used game that is utterly worthless, then download the game from XBL anyway. :sheep: :spitout:
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by sdetoni »

RiK wrote:Massive fail for me. It's just a glorified fucking TIVO that might play a few games too.
Yeah, more of the same, service delivery device... please hand over more money even though I've already paid for the console! #$@%-off!
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by Meow »

sdetoni wrote:
RiK wrote:Massive fail for me. It's just a glorified fucking TIVO that might play a few games too.
Yeah, more of the same, service delivery device... please hand over more money even though I've already paid for the console! #$@%-off!
Do we hear the Wii U calling?
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by Jamesac »

Speaking as a Wii U owner- no, not really. Wii U is a wasteland, and there's no reason to think it will stop being one.

PC and PS4 (tentatively) for me, plus a tiny handful of Nintendo-published games as the Wii U slowly fades from sight.

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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by Meow »

Jamesac wrote:Speaking as a Wii U owner- no, not really. Wii U is a wasteland, and there's no reason to think it will stop being one.

PC and PS4 (tentatively) for me, plus a tiny handful of Nintendo-published games as the Wii U slowly fades from sight.

James
Ah so Nintendo's pulling a cube. History repeats. I'm leaning more and more towards a PS4. Early days. It's a waiting game. TBH I'm really happy with the 360. I feel no need to change. Although the software is drying up rapidly this year. Umm I wonder if MS has blown it. The whole online MS community leaves me cold. I hated it from day 1. The One is not inspiring me at all. I'm unimpressed so far with the whole thing.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by Darkflame »

Would it be possible to have "tv apps"?

That is, apps that manipulate the audio/video stream in some way?

For example;

* logo removing
* credit unsquasher
* volume balancer (+detects that shift that adverts do and auto-reduces)
* IMDB linked facial recognition
* random gunshot effects....letting you blow up that annoying guy.

I could see this being a big new app market.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by Chuffmeister »

For anyone who missed the full presentation, heres a handy summary;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw
https://soundcloud.com/audioguy - Always some new sounds there

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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by chub »

Chuffmeister wrote:For anyone who missed the full presentation, heres a handy summary;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw
Haha, brilliant.
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by benedictw »

RiK wrote:This gen it's going to be PS4 or not at all for me.
Aye.

I watched the XBOX ONE reveal last night with my 14 year old daughter. She's not a techie but loves the occasional game and absolutely adores new technology.

Anyway, she was utterly unimpressed and wanted to watch the PS4 reveal.

"They're actually talking about games."

"That looks fun - its pretty and colourful not just brown!" (The Witness).

"Dad, we're going to pre-order the PS4 aren't we?"

What DOES worry me a lot is the custom designed, non replaceable, HDD. Its not like MS have ever had any problems with hardware reliability in the past has it?

We've STILL got the fees for XBL gold. The PSN subscription looks like a far better deal providing the free games keep up.

Both platforms seem to do video sharing and auto-saving-when-turned-off so thats a tie.

And the XBOX ONE will need to be online, once every 24 hours, for your games to work. So if you take your xbox on holiday, or dont have BB or are a US serviceman abroad YOU ARE FUCKED.

Theres just too much fluff aimed at Skype and Windows Apps and IE (seriously? if I want a webbrowser I'll use a phone). This generation is Sonys to loose. (Assuming the concept of games consoles is relevant at all anymore).
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Re: Next Gen - The Verdict

Post by RiK »

Meow wrote:
sdetoni wrote:
RiK wrote:Massive fail for me. It's just a glorified fucking TIVO that might play a few games too.
Yeah, more of the same, service delivery device... please hand over more money even though I've already paid for the console! #$@%-off!
Do we hear the Wii U calling?
Not even remotely.
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