Next Gen - The Verdict

[fog]

During the Xbox One launch they said something about it running 3 instances of the OS, one reason being to make switching between things fast. Presumably that's why it needs so much RAM.

Yeah that was mentioned...

The latest update out of the currently unfolding announcement in Redmond: the next-generation Xbox will run three operating systems simultaneously. Complementing Windows 8 and RT on PCs and tablets, there'll be a third distinct version of Microsoft's operating system that has been pared down specifically for the new console. This will be the main system OS used to run apps such as Skype and other non-game titles downloaded from the Xbox storefront. At the same time, virtualization technology similar to Microsoft's Hyper-V will be used to allocate the bulk of system resources to a second, dedicated "Xbox OS" when the user loads up a game. This game OS will remain a fixed entity throughout the life of the console, so that game developers can be confident their games will run regardless of how much the Windows side of the machine gets updated. Finally, the third OS sounds like a small layer to assist with the virtualization, allowing the two main personalities of the console to talk to each other.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox ... g-systems/

If the 3Gb vs 1Gb OS is true then the XBone has 5Gb of much slower RAM than the PS4's 7Gb. I'm not technical enough to know what that potentially means for games though

[gilesgoat]

During the Xbox One launch they said something about it running 3 instances of the OS, one reason being to make switching between things fast. Presumably that's why it needs so much RAM.

By the look of it it almost looks like there is :

1. "xbox os" ( or whatever it is ) for the games to run
2. WIN8 "CE" for the dashboard and all that crap
3. some maybe RT OS for kinect and the input devices

I bet they have "one cpu core each" ( just speculating ) and that's how it works.

[Meatpuppet]

Wow. That was the most uninspiring load of corporate drivel I've seen for any recent console launch. Is it just me, or did everyone presenting just seem *bored*. Bored with trotting out the same old, same old - Very sad if this is to be last hurrah of the games console as we've known it.

[gilesgoat]

Wow. That was the most uninspiring load of corporate drivel I've seen for any recent console launch. Is it just me, or did everyone presenting just seem *bored*. Bored with trotting out the same old, same old - Very sad if this is to be last hurrah of the games console as we've known it.

To be fair I think it's really quite a bit difficult nowadays to come out with "something really new and exciting" about consoles.

I mean "Kinect and Wiimote" in a way "already made their time" .. cool but .. but even quite a bit of "yes but no but ..".

Integrating TV into console "one box dos plenty" .. mah .. maybe what some wants, maybe not what everyone wants ?

So I guess what remains (maybe ?) is "super mega graphic grunt" and games like never seen before ?

Or what else ? I don't know.

To the question "We have to make a new console, what do we put in ?" .. I am really not sure I'd have a clear answer to that.

A first thing could be "more power" .. it's ok but then "what else ?".

I think you risk to get to the point where "Oh, I just connected a PC to a TV" .. and then someone could say "Hey I've done this 10 years ago if not more".

And then someone will say "But I DO NOT want to connect a PC to a TV, a CONSOLE is NOT a PC !"

Ok .. what is a console then ? So why should I have skype and such on it when I have it on my PC ?

Or a web browser for that matter.

Or why yes both of two but not Y that I have on my PC I like it too ?

I don't know really .. certain "in essence" a console should be "something to play video games", so "number one" point should be about games, number two all the rest (?)

Mah .. I really don't know, I am still quite happy of what I already have, so many games I surely don't have all that time to play as well.

[Darkflame]

Thats a bit defeatist "everything that can be done, has been done".

I can think of half a dozen things at least (sure I posted ideas elsewhere) to improve game possibilitys , smarter and more numberious minds at sony/nintendo/microsoft should be able to do the same.

Even if nothing can be revolutionary and give new things, both the Kinect and Wiimote have a long way to go to be perfect.
Any signs the "new kinect" is better? figure sensing? headtracking? etc.

[Absolute_Zero]

If the 3Gb vs 1Gb OS is true then the XBone has 5Gb of much slower RAM than the PS4's 7Gb. I'm not technical enough to know what that potentially means for games though

Probably not a great deal on multi-platform games, moreso with exclusives.

There's a few swings and roundabouts with the memory: whilst Sony's GDDR5 crushes on bandwidth, it lags Microsoft's DDR3 for latency. The One also has 32MB of ESRAM embedded in the SOC plus dedicated hardware for moving memory around. But overall, the 3x bandwidth is a clear Sony win imo. They got lucky with the [just in] timely availability of 512MB GDDR5 modules; originally it was to be 2GB machine, and then more recently 4GB. Then the memory advantage would've swung to Microsoft, methinks.

A bigger, more significant 'games' win lies in the GPU portion: Sony has 50% more compute units [18 vs 12], teraflops [1.8 vs 1.2] and 2x ROPS [32 vs 16].

The only way MS might close the gap is by boosting the as-yet unannounced CPU frequency from the expected 1.6GHz. But given their experience with RROD, that seems unlikely.

Sony deserves the core audience I think they'll attract... for building the most powerful console they possibly could, at a bearable price.

[gilesgoat]

If the 3Gb vs 1Gb OS is true then the XBone has 5Gb of much slower RAM than the PS4's 7Gb. I'm not technical enough to know what that potentially means for games though

Probably not a great deal on multi-platform games, moreso with exclusives.

There's a few swings and roundabouts with the memory: whilst Sony's GDDR5 crushes on bandwidth, it lags Microsoft's DDR3 for latency. The One also has 32MB of ESRAM embedded in the SOC plus dedicated hardware for moving memory around. But overall, the 3x bandwidth is a clear Sony win imo. They got lucky with the [just in] timely availability of 512MB GDDR5 modules; originally it was to be 2GB machine, and then more recently 4GB. Then the memory advantage would've swung to Microsoft, methinks.

A bigger, more significant 'games' win lies in the GPU portion: Sony has 50% more compute units [18 vs 12], teraflops [1.8 vs 1.2] and 2x ROPS [32 vs 16].

The only way MS might close the gap is by boosting the as-yet unannounced CPU frequency from the expected 1.6GHz. But given their experience with RROD, that seems unlikely.

Sony deserves the core audience I think they'll attract... for building the most powerful console they possibly could, at a bearable price.

This is the kind of talk you would see in some magazines or places ...

Reality is only one "show me the games" and how they are and play.

You can have the best ram, the best CPU, the best whatever and still have shitty stuff.

Or, you could have less power and excellent stuff.

We are not buying hw here, we are buying games !

[defsdoor]

Am I the only person that cannot see how running 3 operating systems at the same time is a good thing ?

Surely it's an admission that you can't create an OS that is any good ?

[pogo]

It's a good thing if you want to run apps with different OS requirements, so different architectures, at the same time. E.g. 32 bit and 64 bit apps (I know now that any modern OS will run them side by side but that wasn't always the case).

The problem is that playing a game you often don't want to be running any other app. Of if you do it's an app of your choice on your terms. MS's multiple OSes (it sounds like two main ones and a kernel to manage them) suggest MS have decided to keep apps running while your gaming; not just services like voice chat but full blown apps requiring their own OS.

The only app I can think of that would make sense is Skype, for voice chat. It makes sense for MS as they bought it but haven't done much with it: it's still available Mac, Windows and phones, still works pretty much the same way. But it's not an app people choose for voice chat in games, and I think few gamers will want to be forced to get Skype IDs and manage all the people they play games with through it. But it only makes sense to have it available all the time if it's used, so if gamers have no choice.

[bcass]

Part of me wants to believe that microsoft have something wonderful lined up for e3 to wow everyone. On the other hand, this presentation is so completely and utterly in-line with the rest of their disastrous business decisions of the last few years that it seems highly unlikely. The depressing thing is that this monumental clusterfuck isn't going to be enough to kill them off once and for all.

[Meow]

To be fair I think it's really quite a bit difficult nowadays to come out with "something really new and exciting" about consoles.

Not really. I just want a console to be mega powerful than the last Gen, with better and clearer and almost photo realistic graphics and to eat the last console alive. Which it has been. The One is just a PC without a keyboard with lots of unnecessary fluff. I want a console to be and console. So I can sit in front of me telly with a cuppa and just play games. Not to watch telly, share cute cat photos, watch a movie. I got PVR and PC for that. Console are just really about playing games which seems to be forgotten.

[axel000]

No it isn't all that difficult to come up with good ideas for the next generation. All they had to do was staring them in the face for the past six to nine months - Occulus and that finger wavy air thingie.

Back in the early 00's talk was all about convergence and the living room TV set top box. Something odd happened in the past dozen or so years though, the living room TV isn't the center of our entertainment anymore, not by far. I haven't seen one well reasoned argument for why all the shit MS showed ought to be done on a single TV screen. Sure, I know their accountants would like that, but for the punter it makes little sense these days.

There are better devices for web browsing. There are better devices for chat / texting. Mid-range gaming PCs already outclass the hardware. Hands free gaming is tedious and lacks physicality, oddly enough.

I could go on but am boring myself.

[tufty]

[chub]

The only app I can think of that would make sense is Skype, for voice chat. It makes sense for MS as they bought it but haven't done much with it: it's still available Mac, Windows and phones, still works pretty much the same way. But it's not an app people choose for voice chat in games, and I think few gamers will want to be forced to get Skype IDs and manage all the people they play games with through it. But it only makes sense to have it available all the time if it's used, so if gamers have no choice.

Microsoft already integrated their logins with Skype a few months ago, so it's unlikely that gamers will need a separate Skype account. At least Windows Live logins work already.

[MattyP]

See this is the problem the convergence thing with TV isn't relevant anymore it's an idea that was dreamt up when the original Xbox was introduced.

People don't need it all on TV mobile devices have now filled the gap.

However saying that on the flipside I guess TV is still the biggest entertainment medium with ultimately the largest advertising revenues to be made hence MS's interest into getting a piece of the pie.

What MS will probably end up doing is integrating the Kinect and Xbox into a TV and selling the XBox TV and it will be job done TBH. Won't be surprised if this doesn't happen at some point during the XBones lifespean.... The ultimate advertising mans dream it can watch you whilst you are watching TV - the Kinect can monitor your reactions to the content you are viewing it can monitor what you are watching and for how long. It will know who is watching, what they have searched for recently in bing and target advertising directly at that person. Of course Kinect will always be on and the Internet will need to be connected..... Really is Big Brother is watching you. Yeah that really sounds kind of creepy TBH.