EU referendum are you in or out

[zip accident]

Interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35749084

[VNVObit]

Interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35749084

Boris is very much of the "do as i say not as i do" approach to consistency

likewise his sudden realisation that a 43 year old act is inconsistent with sovereignty spurs him into action just beggars belief. if he was really passionate about sovereignty he wouldn't have left it so long to check

[Absolute_Zero]

Whilst this deal [with the Shayṭān] should help keep a lid on the migrant crisis viz. a remain result in the referendum, the prospect of Erdoğan bludgeoning his way into the sanctum fills me with apprehension.

[(o)(o)]

I'm being really clear that the fuck everything but profit in the commercial sector has fuelled short termist, greed oriented company stewardship.

A successful relationship depends on mutual benefit for both partners. Friedman's view of the relationship between commerce and society is that business should take all it can and pay as little back in as is humanely possible. And that's a successful strategy. For a while. Long term it's fucked.

To be fair blaming Friedman for cunts might be a little like blaming Wagner for the Nazis. But there you go

Friedman is one influential node in a clusterfuck of regressive thinkers whose ideas have propagated through consciousness. Alan Greenspan was more directly responsible for the banking collapse, but they are cut from the same cloth. The gravitational epicentre (publicly) is perhaps Ayn Rand. A woman whose philosophies popularised like a virus, despite being borderline sociopathic. A contagion particularly in America that's blighted progress in political policymaking and corporate ethics for decades.

Completely at rayndom I stumbled into this. Brian Eno is so eloquent..



Greenspan famously tacitly admitted the central tenets of free market psychopathy are a bunch of wank. That didn't stop him banking 6 figure cheques on the after dinner speech circuit, after wrecking the livlihoods of large chunks of the population.

[Darkflame]

Always seemed odd that Ayn Rand has such a following in a country that also (claims) to believe "all men are created equal"

[VNVObit]

Always seemed odd that Ayn Rand has such a following in a country that also (claims) to believe "all men are created equal"

Some are more equal than others? this was a nation that also employed slavery ( they weren't the only ones)

[snaff]

Greenspan famously worked for a government regulatory body.

[pogo]

Alan Greenspan was more directly responsible for the banking collapse, but they are cut from the same cloth.

LOL, no. Alan Greenspan was just head of the Federal Reserve, the equivalent of the governor of the Bank of England here. As such he had no real power; the main responsibility of the Fed is to set interest rates, which they do by periodic votes. His vote carried no more weight than anyone else’s. They set the rate with the aim of keeping inflation and employment stable, they are not pursuing political or other goals.

They certainly did little to head off the crisis, but it is unclear what they could have done. Some have argued that they should target not just consumer prices but also asset prices, so they raise rates to rein in an asset bubble. But that might make interest rates more volatile, and anyway might not work: bubbles often defy all sorts of signals until they burst. Central banks around the world missed or did nothing to restrain the bubbles in property or lending in the lead up to the crisis.



Anyway, I wanted to write because of the nonsense being put out by the Leave campaign. Their argument seems to come down to two things. That the Better In campaign is scaremongering. And the benefits of being outside the EU for e.g. employment.

European Union regulations cost jobs in the country. Outside the European Union, we can take decisions and make laws that are in our own national interest.

Problem is it’s not clear which regulations he is referring to. The minimum wage? Not an EU regulation. High taxes? Nothing to do with the EU. Our union laws? All of our own devising. If you look at employment here, or in Germany, and compare it to France or Italy then there are wide variations within the EU. It can’t have anything to do with EU regulations.

But more importantly he is delusional if he thinks we can escape EU regulations, as they will be part of any trade deal with the EU. They will only give us a deal with full market access if we accept all EU regulations. The EU are not going to open their markets only for us to compete unfairly with more relaxed regulations. They will be a non-negotiable part of any agreement. You need only look at the countries in Europe with such agreements now.

[gravy]

Alan Greenspan was more directly responsible for the banking collapse, but they are cut from the same cloth.

LOL, no. Alan Greenspan was just head of the Federal Reserve, the equivalent of the governor of the Bank of England here. As such he had no real power

LOL no, it's 7 people voting on policy he shape and on which he has casting vote.

Poor interest rate management by the Fed bears a huge amount of responsibility for what happened.

[tufty]

Yeah, because, as head of the Federal Reserve, it's not as though every time he opened his mouth there was a share price adjustment, or anything.

<facepalm.gif>

[gravy]

And at times the commitee has voted him personal discretion on to set the rate. "Doh! I didn't get my way, maybe next time!" isn't something Greenspan ever said much during his tenure.

[gravy]

Doh!

In a February 2004 speech Greenspan suggested that more homeowners should consider taking out adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) where the interest rate adjusts itself to the current interest in the market. The Fed own funds rate was at a then all-time-low of 1%. A few months after his recommendation, Greenspan began raising interest rates, in a series of rate hikes that would bring the funds rate to 5.25% about two years later. A triggering factor in the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis is believed to be the many subprime ARMs that reset at much higher interest rates than what the borrower paid during the first few years of the mortgage

And the man himself on the subprime mortgage industry just prior to its collapse:

Innovation has brought about a multitude of new products, such as subprime loans and niche credit programs for immigrants. Such developments are representative of the market responses that have driven the financial services industry throughout the history of our country ... With these advances in technology, lenders have taken advantage of credit-scoring models and other techniques for efficiently extending credit to a broader spectrum of consumers. ... Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit, lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately. These improvements have led to rapid growth in subprime mortgage lending; indeed, today subprime mortgages account for roughly 10 percent of the number of all mortgages outstanding, up from just 1 or 2 percent in the early 1990s

Probably worth looking up the Greenspan put as well.

[pogo]

I know about the Greenspan put. The first quote is interesting but I would say needs one of those health warnings – this does not contain investment advice, markets can go up and down, etc.. People did listen closely to what Greenspan said. as they do to all modern central bankers, because they want clues about the next move in interest rates. Does not mean he has any special insight or wisdom on e.g. which mortgage products consumers should buy.

Adjustable rate mortgages are unusual in the US, we have them here too but we just call them mortgages as almost all of ours are like that. Oddly many in the US are fixed rate which means when e.g. there is a recession and rates fall consumers don’t benefit, so the impact of rate cuts are deadened, making the job of central banks harder and leading to more foreclosures. Maybe that’s why he was recommending adjustable rate ones. As for interest rate rises triggering the crisis, the crisis was going to happen sooner or later. Like all bubbles it was going to burst at some point. No market can defy gravity forever.

The second quote is less interesting, it’s just describing some features of the market. Not alarmist enough for whenever it was said? Possibly, but though many people knew there was a housing bubble with some unusual features, very few knew quite how bad it was and would get (the few that did made a killing betting against the market). Many thought the unusual innovations in the market such as securitisation would make things safer, not worse, and this may have included Greenspan.

[gravy]

The second quote is less interesting, it’s just describing some features of the market. Not alarmist enough for whenever it was said? Possibly, but though many people knew there was a housing bubble with some unusual features, very few knew quite how bad it was and would get (the few that did made a killing betting against the market). Many thought the unusual innovations in the market such as securitisation would make things safer, not worse, and this may have included Greenspan.

It's praising the atomic bomb just before it fell on the economy.

The wider issue here is I suspect capitalism is inappropriate for where the world's economy is heading.

It's based on the precept of continual growth and actions with that as the starting point have caused us huge problems.

Capitalism has been amazing for advancing human society but that in no way means it's a model that works for all phases of our development.

If you're climbing a ladder then continually stepping is a great way up it. You don't want to keep doing that when you get to the top.

[venusian]

It's hard to tell where the top is when you're looking downwards in order to better to step on the fingers of those following.