EU referendum are you in or out

[PumaG]

Britain is on a good deal. it gets to pick and choose which EU policies it takes on board anyway, so nothing wrong with being in.

Then again, why bother if you're not going to participate?
Also, we should have adapted our roads to drive on the right when car ownership was still fairly low.
Should have also joined the Eurozone, but that was to protect our banks. No free money transfer between international accounts like the europeans get? whats all that about then?

The most hilarious argument against, was that the Eu wants everywhere to look the same! yet Britain has the most god awful housing policy and modern architecture in Europe by far. Those nasty local planning laws where houses and building all have to use cheap puke coloured Bricks to be 'in keeping with' . Check out the new visitor center bang opposite Arundel castle or the brick section of Anfield's new main stand, wheres the puke icon..British obsessiveness with being visually uniform wouldn't be so bad if there was an gram of sophistication in the culture.

[pogo]

It’s even worse than that. The puke coloured bricks are as they are what people like (or what builders think will sell). Certainly nothing to do with planning. Outside a few conservation areas the state could not care what colour your house is.

But yes, in most things we have final say. The Leave campaign have found it hard to come up with things we could change on leaving. VAT on fuel !? Hardly a major issue – it’s at a lower rate to everything so eliminating it would not cut bills by much. VAT is required by the EU but like most taxes no government will be in a hurry to cut or eliminate it and have to make up the difference elsewhere.

And it could even have to rise on exit, if VAT is still required when we negotiate a new deal. The lower rate for fuel is a particular opt-out we have, along with a few other things such as zero rates on food, books etc. What’s to stop the EU changing the rules to eliminate such opt outs? We could not complain as being outside the EU we would have no say over what rules they introduce.

[PumaG]

I believe the bricks used in buildings opposite Arundel Castle are those bog standard lowest of the low engineering bricks, a dark shade of Umpa Lumpa. You see walls made out of them outside housing estates, high street pubs, chip shops, a nice shiny background for the weeds and litter.
The Museum visitor center Im on about is made from random patches of the old stones from the castle mixed with the same old British brick, which looks hideous in contrast, the designer should have been shot.

I mean why?




The colour of the houses in the foreground in below photo Im talking about. It's dull and viral in the UK and becomes even more nausiating with the cheap and tacky solution of trimming parts of the building off with White PVC
Im pretty sure this unimaginative uniformity is compulsory according to planning regs.

There are 100s of styles of bricks on the mainland that would have blended in nicely with the old stone buildings, greys, sandstones, various sizes.

Ok so a lot of France and Luxembourg mostly go for rendering, but it's done with style and often finished with vibrant colours, the european windows installed from the inside and opening inwards is also far less of an eye sore (as it happens Arundel is one of the nicest looking UK towns and does still have a lot of the old recessed windows and nice rendering)





european old towns are stricter no doubt, but just look

[pogo]

No, not compulsory. For one if you don’t like it you can just cover it up. About half the houses on this side of our street have. The bare brick looks better though. But there are many parts of the UK where other materials are used. Some of the towns and villages around here are full of stone-built properties. You don’t need to go to the continent to see something different.

[venusian]

Bristol centre


But the housing estates are mostly redbrick.


Around my way (about 10 miles North of Bristol) the local council favours planning apps which use pennant stone or at least a look-alike facade. There's a good number of them, especially infill jobs.

[KlaxonCow]

Economically they don’t have to.

No, indirectly, they do.

Whilst Brexit is not directly much of an economic threat, if nations did all start exiting the EU one-by-one, following suit, gradually collapsing the EU, then that would certainly have knock-on effects on the Euro.

It's not a direct consequence, but it would be part of the fall out.

I see what you're saying about the direct consequences, but I was extrapolating further to the indirect consequences and knock-on effects that could snowball out of a Brexit.

[Darkflame]

Could go the other way.
The UK could do so terrible out of leaving that everyone else has that much more incentive to stay in. We become the bad example.

[merman]

EU subsidies keep many of our farms going. Leaving means a huge hole in the finance of farms, with no commitment from Leave to match what the EU spends.

EU migrants pick our crops. Leaving and restricting immigration means higher food bills.

EU doctors and nurses filling gaps in the NHS. Leaving makes the situation even worse, as does extending the visa/points system.

And if we Leave, our trade into the EU will still be constrained by the same safety laws and established EU standards. Nothing to be gained there, and with the real possibility of tariffs and levies plenty to lose.

[venusian]

It's mad. There's so little upside to leaving that the Remain campaign should be wiping the floor with the brexiter yet it's just not happening.

[gumboot]

Is brexit the definitive UK stupid test, like Trump is in the US?

[Little stoned kiwi]

A lot of people are commenting that being in the EU isn't so bad because the UK is only half-pie in it, picking and choosing economic components. But what if voting to stay in the EU is taken as a stronger commitment to it politically and socially? Why can't the UK not be an EU member while still picking and choosing the same components?
As someone who's grown up in a country focused on free-trade, the EU (from the perspective trade) seems absolutely bonkers. Arguments from both sides involve threats of what punishment the EU is going to dish out depending on the result - including an expectation of being made an example of for even daring to question membership in a democratic referendum. You lot alienated the Commonwealth for that?

[Space Cowboy]

EU subsidies keep many of our farms going. Leaving means a huge hole in the finance of farms, with no commitment from Leave to match what the EU spends.

The UK is a net contributor.

EU migrants pick our crops. Leaving and restricting immigration means higher food bills.

CAP lead to higher food bills, as do EU tariffs. (Which also hurt Africa.)

EU doctors and nurses filling gaps in the NHS. Leaving makes the situation even worse, as does extending the visa/points system.

We have more staff from commonwealth countries than the EU working in the NHS.

And if we Leave, our trade into the EU will still be constrained by the same safety laws and established EU standards. Nothing to be gained there, and with the real possibility of tariffs and levies plenty to lose.

Pure speculation with regards to tariffs and levies.

[gravy]

Pure speculation with regards to tariffs and levies.

On the CCT, it represents tariffs on trade with countries outside the EU.

These have been repeatedly renegotiated during the EU's lifetime with various countries and mostly resulted in a reduction of tariffs.

They'd possibly have to be renegotiated if we're outside the EU and there isn't any clear reason why our bargaining power would be anything like the EU's.

And we'd definitely be subject to CCT on all imports from EU countries

[Dio]

Why can't the UK not be an EU member while still picking and choosing the same components?

What pick and choose? "Follow EU rules or bugger off" is the ibest trade deal we will get. It might be worse.

[Little stoned kiwi]

What pick and choose? "Follow EU rules or bugger off" is the ibest trade deal we will get. It might be worse.

Britain is on a good deal. it gets to pick and choose which EU policies it takes on board anyway, so nothing wrong with being in.

I'm just responding to statements made. Indeed, it surely must be a question of all-in or leave the table. But then why aren't the pro-EU crowd committed and focused on being part of a homogenised Europe?
I don't see how the UK is going to have their cake and eat it too, an impression I get from a few posters here and articles/comments elsewhere. The UK has the power to negotiate with/without the EU or it doesn't.