EU referendum are you in or out

[F-ZeroOne]

France also has roughly twice the land area of the UK but roughly the same population, which may also be a factor in quieter roads.

[PumaG]

The only specific problem I've seen in the UK in terms of road usage is due to massive overcongestion - even the busiest French motorway (outside of peak times) looks positively deserted compared to the UK's main arteries - this positively encourages bad driving as delays and stress levels rise.

Stop twisting my words ffs.

The Police presence on the motorways in France and Germany is much higher than the UK. It would appear to me that they have the resources, unlike the UK, to enforce laws they go to the trouble and expense of introducing.

This is what I said until you became a cunt and twisted my words

A new law came out a couple of years ago, yet theres nobody around to enforce it. The law in the Uk seems very soft-touch.

[PumaG]

France also has roughly twice the land area of the UK but roughly the same population, which may also be a factor in quieter roads.

I would expect all EU countries to use similar Police resources on their roads, given a fair share of those riches the EU brings,.

[gravy]

Why?

[gravy]

The Police presence on the motorways in France and Germany is much higher than the UK. It would appear to me that they have the resources, unlike the UK, to enforce laws they go to the trouble and expense of introducing.

Yet road deaths both in gross terms and per capita is lower in the UK than both of those countries.

With that and crime taken into account you've moved your kids to a more dangerous part of the world.

[pogo]

The Police presence on the motorways in France and Germany is much higher than the UK. It would appear to me that they have the resources, unlike the UK, to enforce laws they go to the trouble and expense of introducing.

There are many laws the police don’t enforce rigidly. Speeding for one, judging from the speeds on the motorways near us. They simply can’t go after every lawbreaker, when lawbreaking is so common. They have to prioritise.

And whatever they are doing it is working as our roads are very safe. Almost twice as safe as France, despite our roads being more crowded and congested. France may have the resources but fuck knows what they are doing with them, with their roads so dangerous. You are deluded if you think we have anything to learn from them, on road safety.

[PumaG]

The Police presence on the motorways in France and Germany is much higher than the UK. It would appear to me that they have the resources, unlike the UK, to enforce laws they go to the trouble and expense of introducing.

Yet road deaths both in gross terms and per capita is lower in the UK than both of those countries.

With that and crime taken into account you've moved you kids to a more dangerous part of the world.

Yeah and I can 'roll around like a pig in shit' because I made my decision based on personal experience, not stats.

Contrary to what you and tufty say, I know full well I have to nail my stuff down when I'm back in the Uk, or it's taken.

I'm also certain if I was to venture into other forums this is widely discussed. Let's, say security and theft threads in Uk cycling or motorcycle forums.
I don't nail anything down in Belgium, France Luxembourg or Switzerland,. Whatever stats you produce, they wont represent the lack of fucking great locks wrapped around their bikes at train stations.

There's quite a contrast in culture when you look at security measures taken in the UK . pretty much tagging and nailing everything down.

I guess now everything is nailed down, the closure of Police stations and cuts in spending on the police makes sense. Now they can make new laws to improve the apparently safest roads in europe, pat themselves on the back and say job complete, as they're not going to enforce them.

[Darkflame]

They wernt aware they had a vote for representatives.

Thinking about how this could possibly happen when there's news coverage of it when they're on... I blame the internet. People are free to pick and choose each and every news item they view. If it didn't occur to them that something exists they're unlikely to read any news items on it that would make them realise it exists.

Thats actually quite plausible.
I dont use broadcast tv anymore myself - but I do glance around news.google.com daily. Not sure how standard that is for my generation. Depressingly I think facebook streams might be the only source of "news" for many.
Combined with the fact that at no point in my education was this stuff ever mentioned, it does make sense that large numbers of certain age groups could be relatively ignorant.

[PumaG]

The Police presence on the motorways in France and Germany is much higher than the UK. It would appear to me that they have the resources, unlike the UK, to enforce laws they go to the trouble and expense of introducing.

There are many laws the police don’t enforce rigidly. Speeding for one, judging from the speeds on the motorways near us. They simply can’t go after every lawbreaker, when lawbreaking is so common. They have to prioritise.

And whatever they are doing it is working as our roads are very safe. Almost twice as safe as France, despite our roads being more crowded and congested. France may have the resources but fuck knows what they are doing with them, with their roads so dangerous. You are deluded if you think we have anything to learn from them, on road safety.

yeah, France is terrible for cyclist deaths. Funnily enough, 2nd only to the Uk .

Has the remain campaign stated that UK cycling safety will suffer yet? They tend to pick things that are popular, but ironically already not too great

Again, you wouldn't blame someone for expecting the Uk to have a nice budget after being enriched by the EU. To follow eu directives and recommendations and improve the infrastructure for this type of transportation, producing the quality inline with other Eu countries. .
I notice that attempts to have infrastructure changed to help favour cycling in the UK, are usually always fought with economic benefits, before quality or ease of life. You'll find on cycling forums most cyclist want this to be easier and better quality.

The EU tried to introduce laws to stop that car modification culture, mostly based on noise complaints being a serious issue (appear to be number 1 for most UK councils) . The UK's MP had it overturned to protect the Uk noise making industry, even though many of these parts are illegal to fit anyway.
There's those Soft-touch laws I was talking about ('bullshit' according to gravy and tufty) a waste of money and in conflict with UKs selfish economic pressures. .

Incoherent maybe....
but all truths and quality of life issues, that an EU citizen should be able to expect to be sorted.

I'm not claiming for one minute to vote leave over this, but Britain has issues keeping up. They were fined for not meeting pollution targets a few years ago, then the Transport minister got all serious over the VW scandal, claiming he wanted to protect your health. I'll try and find the name of the pollution authority in france, I see their trailers parked up outside some of the hotels I stay in, cant say Ive seen much in the uk.

But this isn't what anyone here wants is it. The smell of racist has gone, so who gives a fuck.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... on-targets

[pogo]

Cycle safety isn’t ideal here. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem – we have few cyclists so don’t see making provision for them a priority, but there are few cyclists as the provision for them is so poor – but other countries have managed it. Holland and Denmark are usually invoked as being better for cyclists.

But it’s hard to get worked up about it (and I am a cyclist more than a driver) once you realise that injury rates are very low, and you are far more likely to prolong your life cycling, and enjoy a much better quality of life at the same time, than shorten your life. You are far more likely to die in a car, on a motorbike or as a pedestrian, than on a cycle on British roads.

http://charts.dft.gov.uk/dft-business-p ... cators/#05

[PumaG]

Cycle safety isn’t ideal here. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem – we have few cyclists so don’t see making provision for them a priority, but there are few cyclists as the provision for them is so poor – but other countries have managed it. Holland and Denmark are usually invoked as being better for cyclists.

But it’s hard to get worked up about it (and I am a cyclist more than a driver) once you realise that injury rates are very low, and you are far more likely to prolong your life cycling, and enjoy a much better quality of life at the same time, than shorten your life. You are far more likely to die in a car, on a motorbike or as a pedestrian, than on a cycle on British roads.

http://charts.dft.gov.uk/dft-business-p ... cators/#05

the quality of life on a bike in the uk, is night and day difference with Belgium, Holland,. Switzerlanddenmark(not eu) and Germany. Deaths are measured with miles covered, which is astronomically higher in those countries. Almost 30% of all journeys in Holland are made on a bike compared to 1.5 % in UK

I do appreciate UK has made efforts and they do see the importance, but theres always a compromise and money to be saved., and at the same time undermines pollution targets

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... on-targets

Id be quite extreme and ruthless.

Also consider, a high number of elderly people in Holland and Belgium are still on the road......on bikes.. Britain is safer on a bike, because its not on a bike basically .

[pogo]

I don’t dispute that other countries are better for cyclists. But that does not mean cycling here is especially bad, or dangerous. Uniquely of the forms of road transport it is the only one that improves your health and so prolongs your life. As a form of exercise it’s one of the best, that you can do at almost any age. You need only compare the death rates from cycling to those from heart disease.

So yes, the roads could be more welcoming for cyclists. Not because it would save more cyclists lives, as fatalities are low and outweighed by the health benefits. But as it would encourage more people to cycle and so improve their health, as well as the environment.

[PumaG]

I don’t dispute that other countries are better for cyclists. But that does not mean cycling here is especially bad, or dangerous. Uniquely of the forms of road transport it is the only one that improves your health and so prolongs your life. As a form of exercise it’s one of the best, that you can do at almost any age. You need only compare the death rates from cycling to those from heart disease.

So yes, the roads could be more welcoming for cyclists. Not because it would save more cyclists lives, as fatalities are low and outweighed by the health benefits. But as it would encourage more people to cycle and so improve their health, as well as the environment.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/445924 ... oad-deaths


He said: "We are here because Londoners are fed up of being killed. We need to have modern, European, safe cycling network. We believe it's a human right for children and pensioners to cycle around our city safely, and at the moment they can't.

'The number of cyclists killed per cycled kilometre is very much influenced by the total number of cycled kilometres. The accident risk based on the amount of cycling is lowest in Denmark and the Netherlands (resp. 15.9 and 17.6 fatalities per billion km).

The risk is particularly high in France and Great-Britain (resp. 67.7 and 52.5), where the amount of cycling is low. It has been proven that the risk decreases as exposure increases. An increase in cycling is not automatically linked with a linear increase in road casualties [72].

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safe ... sts_en.htm


http://freights.eu/article/on-the-road/ ... -hgvs.html

[PumaG]

There's also an increasing amount of unsocial behaviour with motor vehicles. I observe there are far less traffic Police on the roads. A new law came out a couple of years ago, yet theres nobody around to enforce it. The law in the Uk seems very soft-touch.

You don't half talk some shit.

And you're a complete cunt trying to invalidate me.

The increase in antisocial behaviour seems to be pretty much generalised across the western world at least.

Nice diversion. Im talking about motor vehicles and a specific EU policy, that only the UK rejected, which keeps this on topic.

You live in a country that I understand bans the type of modifications that cause anti-social behaviour, annoyance and health issues.
The UK's MPs are lobbied to stop the EU bringing in the same laws as france, by the distasteful industry, of which the most popular product they produce, is actually illegal to fit.

only specific problem I've seen in the UK in terms of road usage is due to massive overcongestion

Oh... well that invalidates me and my family's experiences and outstanding issues with the police, doesn't it. What a fucking wanker you are. Britain's loss was France's loss when you showed up.

https://webcontact.sussex.police.uk/asdprs/default.aspx
http://dashboard.sussexsrp.org.uk

[zip accident]

There's also an increasing amount of unsocial behaviour with motor vehicles. I observe there are far less traffic Police on the roads. A new law came out a couple of years ago, yet theres nobody around to enforce it. The law in the Uk seems very soft-touch.

You don't half talk some shit.

And you're a complete cunt trying to invalidate me.

The increase in antisocial behaviour seems to be pretty much generalised across the western world at least.

Nice diversion, Im talking about motor vehicles and a specific EU policy that only the UK rejected, which keeps this on topic.

You live in a country that I understand bans the type of modifications that cause anti-social behaviour, annoyance and potential health issues.
The UK MPs stop the EU bringing in the same laws as france, because they are lobbied by the distasteful industry, of which the most popular product is actually illegal to fit.

only specific problem I've seen in the UK in terms of road usage is due to massive overcongestion

Oh, well that invalidates me and my family's experiences and outstanding issues with the police doesn't it. What a fucking wanker you are. Britain's loss was France's loss when you showed up.

https://webcontact.sussex.police.uk/asdprs/default.aspx
http://dashboard.sussexsrp.org.uk

Nobody can invalidate a person, nor tried to, because that would be silly. Words can be invalidated, but you are not your words You are ill, get help.