EU referendum are you in or out

[(o)(o)]

Angela Eagle has a short memory only two weeks ago the conniving bitch this :

[pogo]

You can see why. It’s not so much the mounting evidence that Corbyn is utterly unsuited for the job. The bad to catastrophic elections in May. the Vice documentary that shone a harsh light on his amateurism. The anti-semitism embarrassments. The lifeless Remain campaign. He has been performing appallingly but no-one expected any better.

Just opinion stated as fact as usual with your anti-Corbyn blather.

You asked for this

The May elections. From bad (England: no opposition had lost seats at local elections since, well, the last time Labour were unelectable) to disastrous (Scotland, which Labour once dominated and were beaten into third place).

The Vice documentary. Just watch it again.

Quite unintentionally it is an honest but consequently damning portrayal of an amateurish leadership.

That ties into the anti-semitisim, as in it he slanders a Guardian reporter for highlighting the problem, and stays in denial until it far too late.

And then there is Brexit. It should have been easy for Labour to rally around the Remain cause, as the economic damage of Brexit would mostly impact Labour voters and natural supporters, while they are strongly opposed to the more racist justifications and UKIP. But their campaign never really got off the ground. It was left to Tories to fight other Tories and UKIP. And people who really should have voted to Remain, such as the most economically disadvantaged, ended up voting Leave.

[(o)(o)]

You can see why. It’s not so much the mounting evidence that Corbyn is utterly unsuited for the job. The bad to catastrophic elections in May. the Vice documentary that shone a harsh light on his amateurism. The anti-semitism embarrassments. The lifeless Remain campaign. He has been performing appallingly but no-one expected any better.

Just opinion stated as fact as usual with your anti-Corbyn blather.

You asked for this

Asked for what?

Wow.. do you seriously think your post there was a rebuttal ?? Methane, and propaganda you've guzzled down and regurgitated, does not constitute substance nor fact.

Targeting Corbyn for Cameron's referendum fuck up, when evidently the majority of Labour supporters voted remain, just reminds one of what a stupid idiot you are.

[Harlequin]

What’s stirred them into action is the real possibility that the next election might be sooner than 2020..

Would at least 434 MPs support an early election?

Not sure whether people can see this without being in the hands of Suckerberg, but just shows how hatred has completely exploded since racists were emboldened by Brexit.

Not just emboldened. Some fuckwits think LEAVE means "foreigns" now have to pack their bags and leave the UK :
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales

There is now a Facebook Community dedicated to reporting such incidents: https://www.facebook.com/Post-Ref-Racis ... 743181923/

[pogo]

Wow.. do you seriously think your post there was a rebuttal ?? Methane, and propaganda you've guzzled down and regurgitated, does not constitute substance nor fact.

Targeting Corbyn for Cameron's referendum fuck up, when evidently the majority of Labour supporters voted remain, just reminds one of what a stupid idiot you are.

I invite you to say which bits you disagree with and refute it. But I am not alone in thinking Corbyn is a bad leader. Most Labour MPs do too. The problem is they are stuck with a selection process which leaves the final choice to members.

I don’t blame Labour for the result of the referendum, no. Those most culpable are Tories, Cameron for calling it and Johnson/Gove for running such a deceitful and dishonest campaign. The EU also should share some of the blame, as their backward economic policies and bungled handling of the migration crisis were easy targets for the Leave campaign. But Labour could and should have done more.

The problem with Corbyn and Labour is not just the lacklustre campaign they ran. There’s also the fact that Labour is unelectable with him in charge. That means Labour voters cannot depend on the Labour taking advantage of Tory infighting, win the next election and implement their priorities. Which is perhaps why so many turned to the false promises of the Leave campaign. Which they did: the Leave vote was skewed towards the more economically disadvantaged, the lower social classes, those in lower paid jobs.

[Harlequin]

… the Leave vote was skewed towards the more economically disadvantaged, the lower social classes, those in lower paid jobs.

Which I think are historically the groups most easily swayed by bigotry and xenophobia during and after recessions. Which I think also goes some way to explaining Donald Drumpf's popularity. And it can be rather difficult to persuade those led to feel desperate and frightened to listen to reasoned arguments.

[snaff]

… the Leave vote was skewed towards the more economically disadvantaged, the lower social classes, those in lower paid jobs.

Which I think are historically the groups most easily swayed by bigotry and xenophobia during and after recessions. Which I think also goes some way to explaining Donald Drumpf's popularity. And it can be rather difficult to persuade those led to feel desperate and frightened to listen to reasoned arguments.

Likewise it's difficult to persuade those who are comfortably well off that their standard of living is based on economic policies that are unsustainable.

[Meow]

… the Leave vote was skewed towards the more economically disadvantaged, the lower social classes, those in lower paid jobs.

Which I think are historically the groups most easily swayed by bigotry and xenophobia during and after recessions. Which I think also goes some way to explaining Donald Drumpf's popularity. And it can be rather difficult to persuade those led to feel desperate and frightened to listen to reasoned arguments.

Likewise it's difficult to persuade those who are comfortably well off that their standard of living is based on economic policies that are unsustainable.

This vote was more about sticking it to Tories if anything.

[Absolute_Zero]

Would at least 434 MPs support an early election?

Would Labour act to support the continuation of a Conservative Government under a Prime Minister unelected by the people as such? The plan is for Tory voters to die laughing?

It's pretty obvious that those resigning believe Labour would have no choice but to support dissolution... and consequently [they fear], face oblivion under Corbyn. This isn't the mere self-interested factional manoeuvring for advantage that some are trying to spin, they're acting [in their minds] to save the party from an existential threat. Realpolitik.

[Cloudane]

If this is how racist we're getting after Brexit, often towards people who aren't even from Europe to begin with, I dread to think what the US will be like if (when?) Trump gets elected. Decades of progress reversed. It finally puts the "I'm not racist but..." and "It's not racist to..." arguments to bed, but not in a way we could've wished for.

That new Star Trek series can't come quick enough, though I somehow think progressive shows like that are just preaching to the choir anyway...

[KlaxonCow]

It's interesting that Osborne has come forward to do the reassuring leadership thing - "we are in a position of strength and we had contingency plans in place for this and, until Article 50 is invoked, everything carries on exactly as it was on Wednesday for the time being" - that Cameron's not bothering to do.

And, no, George is not resigning, as there is work to be done and, though it's not what he wanted, he's going to do the hard work of sorting shit out anyway, he says.

Or, in other words, King Boris has a rival for the leadership, it seems. Osborne is angling for the job by projecting "leadership" from that podium.

I would have ruled him out for being a Remainer, but he has done all the right political things with his little speech - shown leadership, reassured the public, reassured the markets, etc. - to possibly rule himself back in as the "sensible" non-Boris choice for those in the Tory party who really can't stomach the concept of being subservient to the ridiculous King Boris.

[snaff]

The BBC obviously got into trouble for being a bit too blatant with their headline, "reaction to brexit and corbyn crisis" and they've now changed it to "reaction to corbyn crisis and brexit".

[pogo]

It’s worth highlighting how unrealistic the Leave position, that we can maintain access to the EU’s Internal Market while limiting migration, is. Migration is due to “free movement of people”, a fundamental principle of the EU which they are not going to abandon for us. But it is also indivisible from free markets, so they could not separate it even if they wanted to.

Once upon a time trade was mostly about goods. Market access meant tariff-free trade in goods. But now economies are mostly service based, and services are all about people doing things for other people. Free trade in services is only possible if those people are able to move freely to provide those services.

It might be a bank (or a fast food chain) setting up branches in another country. They might employ mostly locals but they also might want to bring in foreign managers who know the firm, its culture, its methods. Or an accountant providing services to clients in various countries: if the firm is based in more than one country then the accountant needs to be to. Or a tradesman or craftsman doing his work wherever it is available.

It’s not just about foreigners coming here taking “our” jobs (even though there are more than enough jobs to go around). We can be exporting services through migration, such as education services through the large number of students who come here for a British (or English language) education. Firms can be exporting goods while attracting foreign workers, such as our large biotech industry. HBO coming to Northern Ireland to make Game of Thrones is a service export.

So any politician that says we can limit EU migration while retaining access to the single market is lying. It’s not just that no such deal is on the table (though that is also true). It’s that it’s not even possible to construct such a deal.

[phattslagg]

Labour coup was going to happen regardless

[fritx]

The only thing brown here is the shit between your ears...

Sure is some erudite and adult conversation going on in this thread.

It makes me lol how the Scots think they can flounce off and join the EU after they leave the UK.
The last thing the EU needs now is more poor countries. Why would they welcome a country so monumentally shit that not even Stuart Campbell wants to live there. When Scotland secedes we should deport him from Bath and make him go and live in Fraserburgh, the grizzling hypocrite that he is.
The EU already got its quota of spiteful ginger tosscakes and foul-tasting spirits when they let the ROI join. I doubt they need more smackheads or fried Marsbars.