EU referendum are you in or out

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
Post Reply

EU Are you IN or OUT

In
98
77%
Out
21
17%
Undecided (shake it all about)
8
6%
 
Total votes: 127

User avatar
pogo
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 14180
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:28 pm 0
Yahoo Messenger: BrassSparrow
Location: County Durham

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by pogo »

gravy wrote:Yep, a mate close with a lot of high level C++ developers working for a couple of banks said they're moving out of the UK. They drew up contingency plans a while ago and are now acting on them.
Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed. In theory that is easy, as it was a purely advisory vote. And politicians can point to the damage being done as reason to avoid leaving the EU.

But it will be a lot easier politically if they can point to other benefits than the economic one, which Leave supporters can argue was taken into account by many voters during the referendum campaign (even if they mainly addressed the economic problems with lies).

I.e. it will be much easier if politicians can point to a reduction in immigration, which was many Leave voters’ main concern. And that might be happening already. And with our obsession with net migration, so the figures are published every month (for the last 12 months) we might know very soon.

Yes, a reduction in net migration is happening because of damage to the economy, but that was always going to be the case. Migrants overwhelmingly benefit the economy, with the two main groups students and workers in different ways providing a massive boost. You don’t reduce their numbers without harming the economy.

On migration, an interesting statistic I heard yesterday. Migration to the UK is of two sorts: from the EU which we have no control over, and from outside the EU which is entirely under our control. Before 2015 (when it reversed) net migration from outside the EU was larger, accounting for over 50% of the net migration total. That means that before 2015 the government could have easily more than halved the net migration figure by simply stopping migration from outside the EU. They don’t as the economic damage would be enormous (all those students from China keeping our universities afloat). A shame they don’t have the courage to explain this.
User avatar
Baggypants
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 5328
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:54 pm 0
Location: Salford(UK);
Contact:

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Baggypants »

Muttley wrote:Finally, a well thought out brexit plan: http://thebrexitplan.com/
I've loved those ever since I coded one in 1997, It said "Shall I call you Percy", "Yes", "No".
"The eggs, get them!"
User avatar
Cloudane
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:05 pm 0
Location: VRchat

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Cloudane »

Just caught up with my Polish Brony friend I'd not seen in a bit (not here - has always been in Poland). He was relieved that I'm one of the 'sane ones' and saddened at the "Polish vermin" flyers that he'd heard about.

WHY MUST WE DO THIS

I know, #NotAllBrexiters, maybe we'd have had the same if Remain had won etc etc etc but it's still fucking shit. Thanks Cameron.

The thing is, as Barney alludes to with that story, it's not just a matter of hate crimes. It's general sentiment - and that's a lot harder to police.
User avatar
Meow
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 3991
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:29 am 0
Location: SW Ontario

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Meow »

pogo wrote:Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.
LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact, does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?
.
.
.
.
....I'm the BEST thing that has ever happened to ME............I think therefore I'm a Yam.
User avatar
pogo
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 14180
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:28 pm 0
Yahoo Messenger: BrassSparrow
Location: County Durham

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by pogo »

Meow wrote:
pogo wrote:Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.
LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?
There are many arguments for reversing it.
  • The Leave campaign was a big con, based on lies
    The Leave campaign did not have an actual plan (what plan there was seemed to consist of win, then expect Cameron who supported Remain to implement their collection of lies)
    Many in the Leave campaign seemed surprised to win – hence the no real plan etc.
    Buyers remorse from many that voted Leave
    The Scotland question
    The Ireland question
And that’s just off the top of my head. I think there are other legal arguments too

The main argument though is it just might never happen. The government seem in no hurry to invoke Article 50. They seem to want guarantees from the EU that they can get a deal to stay in the Single Market but with no freedom of movement. But there will be no such deal. Ask Switzerland*. And Europe refuses to negotiate before Article 50 is invoked. So maybe 6 months from now with job losses mounting, the pound another 10% or 20% lower, and net migration halved as migrants and Brits flee, people will be quite happy to postpone it indefinitely and try and work out a deal within the EU.

* Switzerland voted in 2014 a binding referendum to reduce EU migration. But the EU have said Free Movement of People is non-negotiable, and have refused even to talk about it. Switzerland have until 2017 to implement the referendum decision. But if they do so unilaterally the EU could quite legally end their trade agreements and turf them out of the Single Market.
User avatar
Meow
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 3991
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:29 am 0
Location: SW Ontario

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Meow »

pogo wrote:
Meow wrote:
pogo wrote:Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.
LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?
There are many arguments for reversing it.
  • The Leave campaign was a big con, based on lies
    The Leave campaign did not have an actual plan (what plan there was seemed to consist of win, then expect Cameron who supported Remain to implement their collection of lies)
    Many in the Leave campaign seemed surprised to win – hence the no real plan etc.
    Buyers remorse from many that voted Leave
    The Scotland question
    The Ireland question
And that’s just off the top of my head. I think there are other legal arguments too

The main argument though is it just might never happen. The government seem in no hurry to invoke Article 50. They seem to want guarantees from the EU that they can get a deal to stay in the Single Market but with no freedom of movement. But there will be no such deal. Ask Switzerland*. And Europe refuses to negotiate before Article 50 is invoked. So maybe 6 months from now with job losses mounting, the pound another 10% or 20% lower, and net migration halved as migrants and Brits flee, people will be quite happy to postpone it indefinitely and try and work out a deal within the EU.

* Switzerland voted in 2014 a binding referendum to reduce EU migration. But the EU have said Free Movement of People is non-negotiable, and have refused even to talk about it. Switzerland have until 2017 to implement the referendum decision. But if they do so unilaterally the EU could quite legally end their trade agreements and turf them out of the Single Market.
There is no valid reason for the referendum to be ignored. Any of the above arguments or concerns from the remain faction should have been addressed prior to the referendum. It was made quite clear before the vote what the issues were. The referendum was promised and delivered. It was a democratic vote, either ' yes ' or 'no'. Britain voted overwhelmingly to leave. I can't think of any precedent whereby the minority in a democratic vote cried foul and declared they should win regardless of the outcome - That is not a democracy, regardless of what spin you would like to put on it after the fact. The UK will leave the European Union, the Pound and Stock Markets have rebounded, the price of property in London is going down, and perhaps, just perhaps might one day be affordable to a new generation, rather than simply an investment by the few. There are arguments for reversing any democratic vote by those who are unhappy with the will of the majority. I can think of a few Prime Ministers I didn't like, but somehow being part of a procession to Whitehall didn't seem too much of an option.

We can argue this until the cows come home, and I've no doubt this discussion will fill many more pages, but the vote is done and dusted, and like most defeated minorities, the remain factions, and I mean ALL the remain faction should start thinking how to work with the rest of Britain to look past EU memberships rather than joining meaningless parades up and down the Strand.
.
.
.
.
....I'm the BEST thing that has ever happened to ME............I think therefore I'm a Yam.
User avatar
gumboot
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7652
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:42 am 0
Location: trumpstain!

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gumboot »

Are the British being chased out of Spain, yet?
User avatar
pogo
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 14180
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:28 pm 0
Yahoo Messenger: BrassSparrow
Location: County Durham

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by pogo »

Meow wrote:The UK will leave the European Union, the Pound and Stock Markets have rebounded, the price of property in London is going down, and perhaps, just perhaps might one day be affordable to a new generation, rather than simply an investment by the few.
The pound is down, at its lowest level in 30 years. And it could easily go lower, if we do something stupid such as exit the Single Market. The FTSE 100 has rebounded, but other indices haven’t. I suspect that’s as the stocks are priced in £ and they suddenly cheap, especially the multinationals that just happen to be based here. Some stocks though are down even in £ terms – banks and housebuilders for example.

Yes, house prices should fall but that was going to happen sooner or later – UK housing is a bubble and they always burst eventually – and is a good thing for most people in the UK wanting to buy or move, as well s for the economy. Migration reversing should take some pressure off it too.

It’s quite possible most people won’t notice much, directly, as long as we stay in the Single Market. Most people don’t deal in shares or work in the City. If firms leave and take their workers with them it will not add much to unemployment. Even house prices the main impact will be in London. The main impact will be on GDP and government finances, so slower growth, slower wage growth, less tax revenue for the govt. to spend, but it will be hard to tell that apart from all the other things affecting the economy and budget.
User avatar
Little stoned kiwi
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:05 am 0
Location: Christchurch

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

The UK doesn't need to remain in the Single Market though, just an effective trade-deal. It was strongly hinted the EU will seek to 'punish' the UK and punitive trade restrictions are probably the way to it. Which would be an overly aggressive move I hope doesn't happen for the sake of both the UK and EU.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
User avatar
gumboot
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7652
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:42 am 0
Location: trumpstain!

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gumboot »

Little stoned kiwi wrote:The UK doesn't need to remain in the Single Market though, just an effective trade-deal. It was strongly hinted the EU will seek to 'punish' the UK and punitive trade restrictions are probably the way to it. Which would be an overly aggressive move I hope doesn't happen for the sake of both the UK and EU.
Even just treating them like any other foreign country would be pretty harsh treatment, surely. And why should they not do that?

I mean, the UK had a pretty sweet deal and it threw it away. What would be the point in the EU if you could get an even better deal just by stamping your foot and hurling racist abuse at people?
User avatar
Little stoned kiwi
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:05 am 0
Location: Christchurch

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

Once out of the EU, the UK is and should be treated as any other country. It would be foolish for the EU to penalise the UK instead of trading with such a conveniently close neighbour.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
User avatar
gravy
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 19572
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:28 pm 0
Location: The Other Place

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gravy »

Little stoned kiwi wrote:Once out of the EU, the UK is and should be treated as any other country. It would be foolish for the EU to penalise the UK instead of trading with such a conveniently close neighbour.
The UK wants free trade without free movement of people; the leave campaign has always said that would be possible.

That isn't being treated like any other country and the EU is saying it's not possible.

That's the problem.
User avatar
gravy
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 19572
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:28 pm 0
Location: The Other Place

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gravy »

Meow wrote:
pogo wrote:Oddly this sort of thing might help keep us in the EU. I mean, I am still hopeful this result will be reversed.
LOL. Let's all make a mockery of democracy. It's done and dusted there is no way back. You've lost. the leavers one. 51.9 of them in fact, does their votes not count. because the remainders lost. What would your prefer socialism?
No one knows what the terms of leaving are yet, there hasn't been any vote on that.

Right now it's:

Brexit: Hey do you want free money?
UK: Yeah!
Brexit: Brilliant. Right we just need to chop your cock off
UK: What? Er.. I changed my mind
Brexit: I'm very sorry but it's undemocratic to change your mind.
Brexit: And just so you know we may not be able to sort out that money thing either! Cheers!
<CHOP>
User avatar
Little stoned kiwi
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:05 am 0
Location: Christchurch

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

gravy wrote:
Little stoned kiwi wrote:Once out of the EU, the UK is and should be treated as any other country. It would be foolish for the EU to penalise the UK instead of trading with such a conveniently close neighbour.
The UK wants free trade without free movement of people; the leave campaign has always said that would be possible.

That isn't being treated like any other country and the EU is saying it's not possible.

That's the problem.
The EU isn't about free-trade from what I've seen, not even within its member states. If the UK does manage to snag true free-trade with the EU the UK would still have teething issues as it economically and socially restructures.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
User avatar
tufty
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 12523
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:52 pm 0
Location: French Alps

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by tufty »

Meow wrote:…grammatically corrent and reasonably coherent post …
You are not Meow. What have you done with him?
"massive retard™", "full of shit™", "tiny bitch™", "retarted™", "a bit of a one trick pony™", "petty™", "simple minded idealistic twat™", "miserable humourless fucker™"
Post Reply