EU referendum are you in or out

[gumboot]

Brexit = uncertainty, regardless of how well the ham fisted fucktards in charge manage to do it.
Uncertainty = an opportunity to make a fistful of money. See also "Black Wednesday"

Apart from political fallout and tantrum throwing, from where I'm sitting, nothing has actually happened yet. Just yank the sticking plaster off already instead of slowly picking at it.

People -- serious business people who make serious business decisions -- have to look several years ahead to a point in time when the government does actually get around to doing what it says. Their decisions are already based on the plaster having been yanked, and the market today reflects that.

Diving in and getting it done only validates that speculation.

[k345y]

I hope we get independence in Scotland now after this affront to democracy that was called a 'referendum' on Brexit.


Lies, more lies and damned lies.

[gumboot]

People say that like somehow they didn't expect to be lied to.

[merman]

Theresa May and Jeremy Hunt saying "no extra money for the NHS".

It's a shame when you can't believe the side of a bus.

[Barney]

[snaff]

Euro 'house of cards' to collapse, warns ECB prophet

The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.

"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

Prof Issing said the euro has been betrayed by politics, lamenting that the experiment went wrong from the beginning and has since degenerated into a fiscal free-for-all that once again masks the festering pathologies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... b-prophet/

[gravy]

I'm not sure I believe that. If you could write it on the side of the bus then it may be a bit more credible.

[KlaxonCow]

As a bonus, it's also written across her tits too.

[snaff]

Why we lost the Brexit vote

Behind the scenes of the flawed campaign to keep the UK in the EU.

As part of the prime minister’s team during both the negotiations with the EU and in the Brexit campaign, I had a frontline seat for many of the debate’s key developments, providing Cameron with advice during all-night meetings of the European Council and helping plot our strategy during the referendum campaign.

As tempting as it might be to attribute the U.K.’s decision to “Leave” to just one cause — frustration with immigration, the reluctance of EU leaders to offer a better deal, broad disaffection with globalization and the post-crash recovery — the truth is far more complex.

http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-l ... d-cameron/

[tufty]

[PFVA]

One has to admit that thing in the Eu can get complicate often

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37758475

European Council President Donald Tusk said it was still possible Ceta could be signed as planned and Canada's trade minister said the deal was "not dead".

But Belgium has said it cannot back the deal because three French-speaking parts of the country oppose it.

Ceta needs the support of all 28 EU nations before it can be approved.

Mind you i have the same concerns the Wallonians have even though my government doesn't seem to, and our media is mostly ignoring the trade agreement

Wallonia has led objections to the deal, demanding stronger safeguards on labour, environmental and consumer standards.

But at talks with Mr Martin on Monday, it emerged two other administrative bodies also opposed Ceta - Brussels and that of the country's French-speaking community.

[pogo]

You can’t run the EU like that. You can’t even run a country like that, where each local government gets a veto over any decision. It would be like Yorkshire vetoing EU decisions.

It does somewhat confirm one of the main arguments for Brexit: the EU is dysfunctional as it can’t even conclude a pretty boring and uncontroversial trade deal. Really, you can sort of understand people fearing a deal with the US, but Canada?! Any other country like the US the trade ministry just gets on with it. Only here do national governments, even local governments, insist they have a veto.

The bad thing though is it shines a hard light on the forthcoming Brexit negotiations. Not only do odd awkward bits of the EU get a veto over that. Everyone gets a veto. So even if Germany wants a compromise deal for us it does not matter, Poland (say) can insist on no compromise over free movement of people and, as the UK government says free movement of people must end, there will be no deal.

[gumboot]

This goes here, right?

[PFVA]

Maybe not like Yorkshire vetoing decision but Wales for example vetoing them. Belgium is divided in autonomous regions and apparently each of them can have a say in deals with the EU. Catalonia would like to have that status within Spain.

You have point in the future decisions of deals with the UK, and for example Slovakia, Hungary and the Czecks have already said that if the UK doesn't allow for the free movement of the EU citizens including allowing them to move to the UK to work they will veto any deals. It can be a problem, if the UK will have to please each of the 28 or 27 members of the EU to have a trade deal.

[pogo]

Maybe not like Yorkshire vetoing decision but Wales for example vetoing them. Belgium is divided in autonomous regions and apparently each of them can have a say in deals with the EU. Catalonia would like to have that status within Spain.

I was being a bit snarky with Yorkshire; Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are better examples. They have autonomy in certain areas, different for each, but national agreements such as on trade are done at the UK level. They all send MPs to Westminster who act on their behalf in government.

The Brexit vote has thrown up similar issues here, in that the vote was to leave but Scotland and Northern Ireland voted remain. Both now say that their votes should be respected. Some in Scotland claim they have the right to leave the UK if they need to, to maintain their status in the EU but that is highly dubious: there is no mechanism for the UK to leave and Scotland to stay; they would have to leave with us, then leave the UK, then renegotiate a brand new agreement with the EU which might take a decade or more. Plus only two years ago they voted convincingly to stay in the UK; it’s hard to believe a vote now would produce a radically different result.

The Northern Ireland argument is much stronger: not only do they have a special relationship with Ireland in the EU, but the Good Friday Agreement which is the basis for their government is grounded in EU law.

But, more importantly, Brexit is a constitutional issue about nationality and sovereignty. You would expect the various parts of the UK to be concerned about it, how it affects them and their status as nations within the UK.

But Ceta is a trade deal, like dozens concluded before, which has no deep constitutional implications for the EU, for Belgium or for Wallonia. It should be negotiated by the EU at the EU level. Letting individual countries dictate terms of it is a recipe for disaster.