EU referendum are you in or out

[Istar]

The decision has been made , nothing can be done to change it , let's move on.

Disagree. Right up until Article 50 results in a departure agreement, or more likely no agreement is reached and we crash out, this idiocy is reversible. As an outside chance (and let's not forget, a Leave victory was considered an outside chance) the massive but oddly under-reported election expenses scandal triggers a whole bunch of by-elections when large numbers of 2015 results aredeclared void. The Mistress is faced with an opportunistic House no-confidence vote and is forced to go to the country this/next year. The resultant ConDem coalition leads to a further referendum on Europe, which votes overwhelmingly to stop the madness. Article 50 is revoked.

This is, I concede, unlikely - but not impossible, and grass-roots activism may sway enough political minds at just the right moment. Minds who are worried about losing their seats, and see a popular swell of opinion away from imperialist isolationism.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[Dio]

The idea that any general election results in anything other than a Tory landslide given the row of headless chickens on the benches opposite is by far the biggest fantasy there.

[phattslagg]

Not necessarily - I remain partly convinced that many Tory voters in the 2015 GE would have voted LD if they known we'd end up with a Tory majority. The polls kept telling us that we'd almost certainly get another coalition, remember? Except it isn't actually possible to specifically vote for that, of course. Tim Farron is particularly unconvincing though.

[merman]

The Great Repeal Bill.

Giving power to ministers to change over 1,000 of the 12,000 EU laws that are being folded into UK law - WITHOUT ANY PARLIAMENTARY OVERSIGHT.

This is taking back control from faceless bureaucrats in Europe* and giving it to a load of corrupt right-wingers who want to abolish anything resembling rights for workers and disabled people.


*Another of the Leave lies, since the bureaucrats only enacted legislation passed by the EU Parliament.

[Cloudane]

The decision has been made , nothing can be done to change it , let's move on.

Disagree. Right up until Article 50 results in a departure agreement, or more likely no agreement is reached and we crash out, this idiocy is reversible. As an outside chance (and let's not forget, a Leave victory was considered an outside chance) the massive but oddly under-reported election expenses scandal triggers a whole bunch of by-elections when large numbers of 2015 results aredeclared void. The Mistress is faced with an opportunistic House no-confidence vote and is forced to go to the country this/next year. The resultant ConDem coalition leads to a further referendum on Europe, which votes overwhelmingly to stop the madness. Article 50 is revoked.

This is, I concede, unlikely - but not impossible, and grass-roots activism may sway enough political minds at just the right moment. Minds who are worried about losing their seats, and see a popular swell of opinion away from imperialist isolationism.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Stage 3: Bargaining

I don't understand the ins and outs of our relationship with the EU and the issues of leaving enough, and don't therefore feel strongly enough that it's like "the end of the world in 2 years", to justify it myself (hence it should never have been a referendum in the first place imo), but I wonder if you do feel this strongly, have you tried any campaigning, maybe knocking on some doors, organising protests etc? It feels like there's a lot of "if only someone would do something to stop this! We're all going to die! Why is no one doing anything?" going around, which is classic bystander syndrome. Everyone stands there looking at each other expectantly while something they desperately don't want to happen, carries on happening.

Personally I think short of a sudden extreme massive public swing towards "IT MUST BE STOPPED", daily rioting in the streets, violent revolution (not inciting any of these things) that eventually culminates in a very fast change in leadership there's no chance in Hell it can be stopped now. But if people do feel that way and do think it can work, they need to be getting out there onto the streets and getting on with it.

[Darkflame]

+1

To stand a chance of any public swing being effective though the "lied too" angle needs to be really pushed. Pro-brexit people need to both know they were missled, and also from a physiology standpoint have a justification for changing their mind.

[Istar]

... but I wonder if you do feel this strongly, have you tried any campaigning, maybe knocking on some doors, organising protests etc? It feels like there's a lot of "if only someone would do something to stop this! We're all going to die! Why is no one doing anything?" going around, which is classic bystander syndrome. Everyone stands there looking at each other expectantly while something they desperately don't want to happen, carries on happening.

At the grand old age of 48, I went on my first political demo last year - the very first 'March for Europe' from Hyde Park to Parliament. I've been on all subsequent London marches, attended various other related meetups, joined my first-ever political party (LD) and actively campaign in my local ward and borough - K&C, so not much hope, but I AM NOT A BYSTANDER.

I refuse to allow uninformed ignorance and bigoted isolationism to steer this nations' course unchallenged. I don't expect to win, but by Xod I'll never stop fighting.

What are YOU doing about it?

[Cloudane]

Nothing, as explained in my first sentence.
Good to hear - I have a feeling you're an exception. I think a lot of people who are ranting this vehemently on the internet are doing only that

[Istar]

Nothing, as explained in my first sentence.

Yeah, don't take it personally - that 'you' obviously looks directed, but in my head it was written as the collective 48% you.

[merman]

Boric has noticeably been absent from public view this week, hasn't he?

Maybe because all his Leave Lies have come home to roost.

[gumboot]

Oh, now that's not fair. Back then everyone lied. It's how things were done in those days. A different time.

[PFVA]

I just some news that Gibraltar agreement would have to be negotiated between Spain and the UK because the EU agreements would no longer apply. Actually i thought Spain and the UK already had some kind of agreement on gibraltar prior to Spain entering the EU in the 90s.

I hadn't thought of that one yet but i guess Gibralter will be out of the EU and Ceuta will still be in. And the EU looses control of the entrance of the Mediterranean Sea as everything regarding that will have to be negotiated with the UK.

[F-ZeroOne]

We could always try some "Gunboat Diplomacy":

https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/statu ... 08/video/1

[KlaxonCow]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Their diplomatic idiocy knows no bounds.

Threatening EU citizens. Threatening security cooperation. Threatening to declare war on Spain (!).

Great way to kick off those negotiations. That'll really put everyone in a good mood to secure the best deal.

Even if Brexit wasn't a horrible idea to begin with, then this lot would conspire to sink the ship anyway with their farcical incompetence to comprehend even a sliver of what the fuck they are doing.

[MegaZoid.]

Yawn