EU referendum are you in or out

[gilesgoat]

Roland UK wholesale prices shot up again on 18th Sept, following huge increases from Yamaha and others.

Which is why last Winter I made a plan to get back 'in the box' audio-wise and am sticking to it, as I'm in a low-income public sector role so my wages have gone down every year since 2010 in real terms, before you add Brexit to the equation. Software is far less vulnerable to these fluctuations and is often 50% off if you wait. I expect such future-proofing buying habits will be reflected across many 'specialist' hobbies. I wonder what it'd cost me if I wanted a new traction kite now, haven't bought one of those for a few years.

The real kicker will be when all our food goes up. The day we're all getting fucked with the same dick is the day people will finally be on the same page, nationwide.

That " knob" is approaching .. inch by inch... it's getting rammed up Brexiteers arses but still they point the finger elsewhere!

That pain in my backside.. it's because we are being punished by europe for wanting our sovereignty and bigotry back boo hoo..

There could be some positive outcome of 'bad trading arrangement', more foods being grown in the UK again, necessarily to survive.. UK regaining some industry.. but when people ever realise how much is imported, how much grain is imported to feed animals.. how much clothing, electronics, alcohol, cars, medicines, raw materials... Things are gonna change around here!

So savings with digital.. and non- physical items!

I await the 3D avocado printer...

Interesting consideration .. with the current state of population and stuff, should UK "become really closed", does it has the capability to produce all by itself the food it needs ?

I don't think so , I don't think there are enough resources for that , even meat production needs more stuff.

Even nuclear fuel comes from somewhere else, you don't mine it in UK.

I think without a "solid international market" UK is well fucked up, also consider the weight of imports vs exports.

[rowan]

Interesting consideration .. with the current state of population and stuff, should UK "become really closed", does it has the capability to produce all by itself the food it needs

I don't have any decent source to back it up but I'd agree, the issue of food security is firmly in the 'not too much of that' territory.
The last time it was really tested was the last world war when rations were pretty meagre. My parents talk how every single day, every single person felt hungry, all the time.
Whilst farming intensity + technology has massively increased since, so has population.

Mind you, if food prices go up, maybe farming will actually be worthwhile & less attractive for farmers to sack it all off + flog their land for housing developments.
They get such a raw deal it's untrue.

[KlaxonCow]

The general consensus is that, no, the UK cannot produce enough food to support itself.

We are an island. A bounded landmass. There's only so much we're ever able to do. Yet, for our size, we have quite a sizeable population. Basically, the arithmetic just doesn't add up.

Also, remember, during the war, the Merchant Navy was bravely resupplying us from the New World - Canada and America - and yet rations were still meagre... and that's when Britain was a much more agricultural place than it is now. We're not remotely geared up for it and we can't get to that position by 2019 or even adding on 2 years of transition by 2021 either.

Even if you imagined that the "austerity" Tories would, in some alternate timeline that won't happen, decided to go hell for leather to try to make it happen in time. Which they absolutely won't remotely do in a million years, let alone 4.

Although, of course, we shouldn't be comparing it to the war. Europe is not going to stop food imports to the UK. It's not comparable in those terms.

No, no. Europe will happily let the imports in... after having whacked a bunch of tariffs and taxes on it first.

It is actually incumbent upon them to do so. That's what the Single Market is all about. Tariff-free movement of goods within the club.

So now that we're leaving the club and have told them to fuck off, they've got to re-impose the tariffs. Otherwise, they'd be giving us all the benefits of being in the club, without the responsibilities nor the membership fee for being in the club.

It's not at all personal, but they simply cannot logically allow this. Or every single member of the club would leave and ask for the same "can I have all the benefits without any of the costs, please? Thanks" terms as well. Because if that's on offer, then who the fuck's not going to want that?

They MUST punish us, even if, on a personal level, they have not a single malevolent nor malicious bone in their bodies.

If they don't, then everyone leaves to try to get the same cushy deal and the EU collapses.

They can't not do this. It is an existential threat to them.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Be a little nasty or just die. What would you choose?

So, in fairness to the EU, seeing as we've really fucked things up for everyone involved, they're really being more reasonable about this than they rightly should be.

[Little stoned kiwi]

They MUST punish us, even if, on a personal level, they have not a single malevolent nor malicious bone in their bodies.

The anti-Brexit brigade gives a worse impression of the EU than pro-Brexit. Like a battered wife justifying why they should stay with their controlling, abusive partner.

[zip accident]

They MUST punish us, even if, on a personal level, they have not a single malevolent nor malicious bone in their bodies.

The anti-Brexit brigade gives a worse impression of the EU than pro-Brexit. Like a battered wife justifying why they should stay with their controlling, abusive partner.

NewZealand lamb was never that big a deal, and it's almost certainly not making a big comeback, though there may be a small one.

[Little stoned kiwi]

I might care if I owned a sheep station.

[zip accident]

I might care if I owned a sheep station.

So why are you so pro-Brexit?

On the larger scale, it's pretty bad, weakens Britain, weakens the EU, makes Russia, China and to a lesser extent the USA relatively stronger, which is not good for anybody outside those three.

[KlaxonCow]

They MUST punish us, even if, on a personal level, they have not a single malevolent nor malicious bone in their bodies.

The anti-Brexit brigade gives a worse impression of the EU than pro-Brexit. Like a battered wife justifying why they should stay with their controlling, abusive partner.

Did you even read the sentence you're quoting there?

It's much the same as the "don't pay ransoms" policy that the UK and US government abide by. The problem with paying, say, $1 million to secure the release of a kidnapped citizen is that you're then implicitly placing a million dollar bounty on the heads of all your citizens aboard.

As a counter point, private individuals and corporations are not obliged to a similar policy, so when Somali fishermen started stealing cargo ships - piracy - then they paid them for recovery of their vessels and the whole area became a problem, as all these poor Somali fishermen, upon seeing this "get rich quick" scheme succeed, decided to replicate their peers' successful formula.

It's not a statement on the value of these vessels or these people, but all about avoiding creating a deeply unhelpful precedent of rewarding bad behaviour. Also known as, in certain contexts, such as with the banking crisis, a "moral hazard".

But, in the case of the EU, as it is a union, then a union without members isn't a union. This is not just "bad behaviour" but an existential threat to the EU itself. It must react this way or face collapse. Potentially a fatal and non-recoverable collapse that ends it all.

It's not personal, it's just logical.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Well, yeah. I'm not accepting of the beast's nature. Members shouldn't stay because they are afraid to leave, they shouldn't want to leave. There's no denying the changes will create winners and losers, or be a painful teething process in general...but there's opportunity with change. I wish the UK all the best as it finds a unique niche to fill.
That's easy to say with my distant objectivity though. Brexit is just really cool and cyberpunk af. The UK is going to be like the Hong Kong of the EU.

[KlaxonCow]

Members shouldn't stay because they are afraid to leave, they shouldn't want to leave.

Ah, maybe that's where we're lost in translation.

I've always consistently argued for the latter. That we should never have voted for this disaster in the first place.

Yeah, I'm totally pulling the "told you so" and will annoyingly persist with that, now and again, until everything does eventually settle down again.

Because, sure, it eventually will settle down. The UK will eventually find something that it can do instead. The effects of the banking crisis will eventually wear off. "This too shall pass" and all that jazz.

So, no, it's not the end of the world and, in that context, I'm not too afraid to leave. It's just, as I've said, I think that leaving was a bloody stupid decision to make and it's not going to be at all pretty for quite a while and there's, as far as I see it, genuinely no actual advantage from doing this.

Or, in other words...

[tufty]

The UK is going to be like the Hong Kong of the EU.

…taken over by China.

[PFVA]

It appears that Brexit maybe easier to deal with by the EU than the Catalexit. Not that they want to exit the EU but they may want to exit Spain and with Spain's refusal to discuss the subject this can become interesting including for the EU.

[(o)(o)]

Check out the flying kick at the start

[(o)(o)]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssessments

Good on Bercow for taking no shit!

Now David Davies is having to concoct more lies to cover up his previous lies "my dog ate the impact assessments"...

You know when the Tories fight through the courts not to publish their own documents they are damning. There is going to be outcry, and Brexiteers will presumably lash out for being 'shown up' with fancy paperwork and stuff.

Combined with the endless flow of sex allegations, and the paradise papers shining a light on tax abuses allowed to happen.. including biggest tory party donor Ashcroft caught with his hand in the till again..

This government is in meltdown!



Oh dear...

[Little stoned kiwi]

What's with Ireland trying to pretend Brexit isn't happening? I thought they'd be all for it as the EU regulations get in the way of being a tax haven.