EU referendum are you in or out

[zip accident]

Democracy is a mechanic, the ideal it props up is freedom, every time democracy opposes freedom, democracy is the darker path.

Whose "freedom", though? The "freedom" of those who do not wish to be restricted by the EU, for example, or that of those who wish to keep those "freedoms" guaranteed by the EU?

Yeah, that's the problem, there's that saying about "freedom for the pike is death for the minnow" and that certainly needs to be thought about. What I object very strongly to is "Democracy Uber Alles", it's not an ideal, it's one way of approaching the achievement of an ideal, it may be the best yet, but it's not yet perfect.

[merman]

Given further revelations that the Leave campaign broke electoral law, the result should be nullified.

If only to give that pig Farage a massive coronary...

[Rhythm]

Given further revelations that the Leave campaign broke electoral law, the result should be nullified.

If only to give that pig Farage a massive coronary...

Quite. Would be even better if it were the EU themselves retroactively threw it out. "We've considered your application but this signature appears to have been obtained under false pretences".

[zip accident]

Given further revelations that the Leave campaign broke electoral law, the result should be nullified.

If only to give that pig Farage a massive coronary...

Quite. Would be even better if it were the EU themselves retroactively threw it out. "We've considered your application but this signature appears to have been obtained under false pretences".

While it would be nice to have Brexit annulled, the EU doesn't have that power, the member states don't let it.

[Little stoned kiwi]

It wouldn't be the EU's place or responsibility. If the referendum was fudged, it's not the referendum itself that triggered Brexit.

[Rhythm]

It wouldn't be the EU's place or responsibility. If the referendum was fudged, it's not the referendum itself that triggered Brexit.

I know this, but it's nice to dream

[Absolute_Zero]

Formerly of this parish, Rev Campbell has drawn some attention from abroad with the following article:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-divided-kingdom/

[zip accident]

And let’s be honest, nobody much cares what the Welsh think.

That's the Rev all right. I don't think he's banned or anything, he just doesn't visit that often.

[merman]

It wouldn't be the EU's place or responsibility. If the referendum was fudged, it's not the referendum itself that triggered Brexit.

And it's important to point out that the referendum was only ADVISORY, not legally binding.

Farage saying he may have to return to frontline politics if Brexit is "delayed" past March 2019. He has about as much credibility as the Natural Law candidates in the 1900s who believed in yogic flying and that group consciousness could reduce crime.

For all those saying we would be taking back control, the future of this country could be decided by half a dozen backstabbing Cabinet ministers in a secret meeting at Chequers today.

[F-ZeroOne]

Well, theres now a Plan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44747444

[Little stoned kiwi]

For all those saying we would be taking back control, the future of this country could be decided by half a dozen backstabbing Cabinet ministers in a secret meeting at Chequers today.

Which, if the narrative is true, is certainly a problem. A UK problem the UK needs to resolve...independent of the EU. [Pun intended]

[merman]

Well, theres now a Plan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44747444

Did the plan say, "get senior ministers to resign like petulant toddlers because they did not get their own way?"

Bye bye Boris Johnson you bluviating buffoon.
And David Davis, whose only principle was to resign in the interests of furthering the career of David Davis...

[Dio]

I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly, frankly. They actually do have a point. The soft Brexit position is the most stupid one of all, because it's quite obviously worse than staying in: all the rules, none of the control. (And May's current fantasy might actually be worse than soft Brexit in that the EU is going to laugh it out as cherry-picking).

So you then end up arguing that Brexit has come to this set of conclusions:
- A soft Brexit is the best Brexit for Britain.
- The soft Brexit is plainly worse than staying in.
- Why the fuck are we leaving?

Soft Brexit is the idiot's choice. It's the triumph of trying to take a politically "easier" route (i.e. not totally ignoring the referendum) over all forms of common sense. It means everyone will hate you - we can all see it's worse than staying in, the Remainers will lambast you for not staying in, the Leavers will accuse you of betraying the principle of Brexit and they are absolutely right to do so; whatever the fuck the British wanted from Brexit it wasn't "nothing changed except we gave up our seat at the table".

At least the hard Brexiters are heading to an unknown future, rather than a definitively stupid one. It's probably much much worse than staying in. It's probably a million of the most fundamental, money-generating jobs gone and another ten years of austerity, but worse than last time because there will be real unemployment in the mix rather than just stagnating wages so the public finances will go to shit at unprecedented rates. But that's fairly hard to prove until we actually career wildly off the cliff.

It's a pity that Labour, having opted for The Stupid Option (TM) can't actually take any advantage of this.

[tufty]

… there's always the LibDems.

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here all week.


… Unless I resign

[RiK]

… there's always the LibDems.

The who?