EU referendum are you in or out

[tufty]

The idea of the commonwealth as a viable trading bloc was dying well before the UK entered the EEC/EU in 1973 (royally shafting the NZ's preferred access to the UK markets in the process). It's too globally disparate, and mostly consists of small countries who have very little in common; it makes less sense now than it did in 1973.

CANZUK's a pipe dream, too.

[Little stoned kiwi]

(royally shafting the NZ's preferred access to the UK markets in the process)

As well as Canada, Australia, India, Singapore...don't write it off just because a lot of members are small and non-white. Having something in common is essential for membership, that doesn't mean having things in common with the UK though. It's not the British Empire anymore.

[Harlequin]

(royally shafting the NZ's preferred access to the UK markets in the process)

As well as Canada, Australia, India, Singapore...don't write it off just because a lot of members are small and non-white. Having something in common is essential for membership, that doesn't mean having things in common with the UK though. It's not the British Empire anymore.

What do these countries have in common that do not result from having being part of that Empire?

[Little stoned kiwi]

Originally, it was for former colonies. Other countries have been able to join if they have constitutional links to existing members.

[korruptor]

As we never left it, and as it was never a trading block, and as it's aims have next to nothing to do with direct trade between it's members, I'm struggling to see how this is supporting any point you're trying to make.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Something I forgot to mention is that the if you don't like aspects of the club, you can try and change it using its agreed procedures for doing so. You may not always get your way, other members may not like you much and resist you, but its probably easier to do so from within the club rather than risking your benefits by storming out and ripping up your membership card in the hope of finding a club [1] that suits you better when the choice of clubs is a bit limited (and those clubs are a bit wary of potential members known to throw tantrums).

[1] Its just possible that by stretching the "club" metaphor this far, I'm making British forum members feel a sudden desire for a chocloate-coated biscuit snack.

You mean like when the UK abandoned the Commonwealth and dealings with other countries to join the EU?
Changing clubs is a legitimate strategy.

The UK used to trade with other countries before joining the EU. It used to be more accepting to the exchange of people between those countries as well. But gave it all up to join the EU.
The context seems to have been derailed by people who seem to think everything not EU is poxy and irrelevant, which makes me realise you lot really are fucked and can't stand on your own.

[korruptor]

Used to trade with other countries?

You mean we only trade with the EU now? No one from a non-EU country can enter?

[Little stoned kiwi]

Other countries don't trade with the UK, they trade with the EU.

Do try to keep up.

[tufty]

Bullshit.

they trade with the UK, but they have to negotiate trade agreements through the mechanisms provided by the EU, which means they get to trade not only with the UK, but with the rest of the EU as well.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Oh. So when Brexit happens next march, the UK already has existing trade deals in place then?

[Harlequin]

Oh. So when Brexit happens next march, the UK already has existing trade deals in place then?

Our existing trade deals were created on the understanding that we are backed by the economic, material and working might of half a continent. They will be invalidated by our becoming an isolated island again.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Oh, right. Sorry. I had the wrong end of the stick there.
I thought the UK could only petition the EU to make trade deals they wanted the EU to make with non-EU members, and lacked it's own independent voice in the WTO.

[Harlequin]

Oh, right. Sorry. I had the wrong end of the stick there.
I thought the UK could only petition the EU to make trade deals they wanted the EU to make with non-EU members, and lacked it's own independent voice in the WTO.

The European Commission (including the British member) negotiates for all the Union at the WTO. The Customs Union sets a common tariff for imports into EU countries.

[snaff]

It happened back in January 1973 to the South Pacific nation when the UK joined the then European Economic Community (EEC), the precursor to today's European Union.

At the time, about half of Kiwi exports were shipped 18,500 km (11,500 miles) to the UK, but access to those prized markets would effectively end as a result of the UK joining the EEC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44210833

The EEC walls went up, cutting us off from the rest of the world ((

[tufty]

The EEC walls went up, cutting us off from the rest of the world

Oh, absolutely. Totally cut off. After all, we only trade with pretty much every other nation on the planet.

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gu ... ic-001.jpg

That graphic is out of date (2012 data), but the current and historic raw data is easily found by going to https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/ ... Table.aspx and selecting "Data by Commodity code".

To give an idea, in 2017 for New Zealand, the UK did 870M exports and 900M imports.
Hell, we did 286K of exports, and 23K of imports, from Ceuta. Feel free to google that one.