EU referendum are you in or out

[F-ZeroOne]

You can be a UKIP opponent, be pro-EU, and want to retain the pound.
If their membership figures and election results are anything to go by then not many people support UKIP. They have a disproportionately loud voice I suspect is due to a level of private funding. It wouldn't surprise me if plenty on the left-wing side of the political spectrum are opposed to the EU or adopting the Euro.

Indeed. The point I was making is that nation that has been influenced by that disproportionately loud voice that used to have the pound as their partys logo to vote, arguably, against their better long-term interests on the basis of "taking back control", "we don't need to be ruled from Brussels!" or "no more foreigners!" is unlikely to be a nation thats going to adopt the Euro anytime soon.

It is possible to be left wing and not like the EU. But thats not the same as probably being better off in the EU to start with.

[KlaxonCow]

It is possible to be left wing and not like the EU.

Indeed, that's one of our other problems here.

What you describe is Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition.

Who's not been doing much opposing on this at all because, truth is, though he may disagree with the government on the fine details, he's not actually in any disagreement over the destination.

During the referendum campaign, both May and Corbyn were nominally "Remain". But, well, May kept herself out of the campaign entirely and kept quiet. And one gets the feeling - from how half-arsed and reticent Corbyn was - that he'd have loved to have joined her but, as leader of the Labour Party, he can't exactly not say anything at all. He was not granted the opinion of keeping out of the way and being silent.

So, really, they're two peas in a pod over this. Both of them were nominally "Remain" but only because, you know, as politicians they had an inkling of how horrid and economically damaging this process was going to be and so they were going with the "better the devil you know" option. Voting not with their hearts, but with their heads that "Remain" was the most sensible and reasonable option.

But once the public granted them permission to choose the worst option - telling them that they're happy to take a gamble on the devil we don't know - they've both been delighted to be able to pursue their heart's desire with aplomb. It's fan-bloody-tastic, they reckon.

The problem is, though, that they seem to have forgotten what their head was telling them before about the massive problems that this is going to cause. And, the thing is, the referendum grants them permission to do that - when it all goes tits up then, hey, it was "the Will of the Public", they'll contend. On your heads be it. You granted us that "get out of jail free" excuse.

[F-ZeroOne]

It is possible to be left wing and not like the EU.

Indeed, that's one of our other problems here.

What you describe is Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition.

Yes, should have made the association myself.

[KlaxonCow]

Ah, Brexit is the disaster that just keeps on giving.

One slight problem with "no deal" is that Ireland - the Republic and Northern - operates a single energy market. So if we hit March without a deal to work this all out properly, energy can't be traded, and the government has actually got a "worst case scenario" plan to import thousands of generators to Northern Ireland, just in case.

Running a nation - a nation that never even voted for Brexit - off generators? Really?

The loyalty of the Loyalists is really going to be tested, if the lights go out and they start "energy rationing". Over a decision that NI never wanted.

And you also have to factor in the backlash with the Scottish, who'll look on incredulously and think "but for the grace of God, go I" (and, you know, as there are no gods, I'd say, this old saying translates to "but for sheer dumb random chance, that would be me").

I'm telling you, the true ironic disaster of Brexit is that it'll seed the destruction of the UK - and the British flag the Brexiteers wave - and will likely lead to greater waves of migration from the Commonwealth to make up the difference in our economic depression from all this.

The turkeys voted for Christmas.

They might not realise it yet, as we'll have to wait for it to unfold, but you'll gradually see that this is actually what just happened in the referendum. All the reasons why they voted Brexit are exactly what it'll end up undoing.

Oh, the ironing. Oh, the huge manatee.

[gilesgoat]

I hope the government will keep some faith to this : EU residents will be secure if no Brexit deal says Raab

Because at the moment I really don't know what to do nor what I should do or can do

But let's not forget there are quite a number of British people in EU .. so what ? "You throw all the EU people out of UK and EU throws all the UK people out of EU back into UK ?"

What about all those pensioners that bought houses in Portugal or shit like that

I am in a situation I have not a clue what's really going to happen or what I can or should do .. nobody seems to know for sure ..

I think it's mega weird because "part of all this" was IN THEORY "to have more immigration control in UK" but "that type of immigration" is precisely what will not be affected by all this ( and anyway won't stop people trying to get into UK regardless of what politics says ) .

This Brexit really came out WITHOUT THINKING at ANY possible consequences, at best "it was meant not to happen" at worst it's been like "oh we'll get the best we'll ever get" ..

WRONG

The more you look at what's going on the more it's like "it should have never happened" also proves how much - but it should be well known - things and countries are 'interlinked' nowadays and you can't just play the card of 'I am going all by my own' that easily.

Now I am wondering .. also .. in case of 'no deal' so .. is FRANCE still enabled to make all those BRAND NEW SUPER BRITISH BLUE PASSPORTS ( MADE IN FRANCE BY FRANCE ) *OR* 'no, they can't be done now, there's no deal about that' and it means that suddenly no UK person will be able to get any passport at all until some British company will make them

I think the story of the passport is "one of the best icing on the cakes I ever seen" I mean .. really ? .. all this "we get back control we do it all alone" and you have passports made IN FRANCE ?? You can't even have a British passport manufacturing company ?

... I bet there's someone ( probably more than one ) in Naples that can make some passports even better looking than the ones made in France

Not to mention Mr "I don't want foreing people" celebrating drinking Italian wine and giving away Italian choccolate ...

He should have used beer and Cadbury ( is it still made in UK or did it went somewhere else as well ? ).

Oh HP Sauce is made in EU now, even that iconic "super British" thing ...

"There's more EU than you can think of" ...

[KlaxonCow]

Indeed, all this jingoistic playing-to-the-racist-peanut-gallery of "no deal is better than a bad deal" shite that they kicked off with immediately is an absolutely unworkable legal and logistical nightmare.

It might make a nice political catchphrase, but it's complete bollocks in actual reality.

And there is not enough time left to work it all out before Brexit Day, even if all parties were 100% on the same page with this. Which they aren't. Because, as you'd fully expect, every party is trying to maximise what they can get out of it all and that negotiation uses up time that's simply no longer there.

Even if, tomorrow, they all agreed then you've still got to do all the ratifying of treaties - with 28 countries and all the institutions involved, so that's not a super fast process - and it'd be a stretch to push this before March.

Again, the Brexiteers still think they're fighting the referendum campaign and still lack acknowledgement that they actually won this. The clock is ticking and they're just in-fighting.

And the deadline doesn't move. So it might even happen that, even with a deal, we still hit Brexit Day with a "no deal"-like situation - in legal and logistical terms - before the deal can be ratified and implemented, in actual "boots on the ground" practical terms.

[Little stoned kiwi]

I'd usually argue that the process would be driven by government employees, rather than bench politicians. But in this instance the UK has been in the EU for so long I won't make an assumption about the connections and relationships the government has behind the scenes. If there is a lack of such connections, that could make negotiations of a coordinated will from the top of government unimplementable.
Adding the tensions of Northern Ireland and Scotland to the mix makes the situation very interesting. Investing in gold, tinned food, and toilet paper might be prudent.

[gilesgoat]

The more you read news and government stuff around, the more it looks like UK will become a sort of real-life-Fallout-4 scenario

That's what will happen after March 2019 when finally everything will fall down ...



Is that what you want ? Yes, it's the will of the people ...

[KlaxonCow]

I'd usually argue that the process would be driven by government employees, rather than bench politicians.

Well, yes, it ought to be.

But there's reason to believe that it isn't, in that whenever a government department publishes their "Brexit assessment" - quite correctly warning of how Brexit is going to fuck various things up royally - then the Brexiteers march out and declare it "Project Fear". It's just Euro propaganda. Ignore it. Everything's going to be lovely. And then they carry on, as if that government department hasn't just contingency planned to run all of Northern Ireland off generators, for fuck's sake. No, no. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

This is happening nearly every time and it's having a chilling effect on the conversation. Because, frankly, this whole thing is, at the very least, a mild form of madness. Yet everyone's being all nice and polite about it.

Well, everyone except perhaps the most unlikely "voice of sanity" you ever could have guessed at:



Considering what's at stake and how fucking mad and incompetent the whole process has been, why is he the only person I've seen in the mainstream, having the rational reaction of getting really properly bloody angry about it?

[rowan]

Danny Dyer, of all people, sums up Brexit beautifully here:

Just won an award for 'TV moment of the year'

[Rubisco]

[KlaxonCow]

In fairness, Dave himself initially opened the door to calling people twats on a live broadcast:



So, you know, "what comes around, goes around".

[(o)(o)]

What comes around should be my fist connecting to Camerons gob !!

" Will of the people" yeah and lets not be having any more general elections - fuck sake it's not democratic to change your mind

[gilesgoat]

So now what ? Africa is going to be UK's next Best Friend after Brexit ? Theresa May pledges Africa investment boost after Brexit

.. next what ? .. UK visit to North Korea ?

[F-ZeroOne]

Hurry, Mrs. May, its waiting there for you...