EU referendum are you in or out

[F-ZeroOne]

Its a terrible thing to happen, and I feel for the victims. But in other countries, protestors are shot with weapons that are considerably more than "less-than-lethal", some of which are supplied (or originated in) by EU members; perhaps have a go at the EU for not doing anything about that either...?

[F-ZeroOne]

Ordinary people just want to make stuff and sell it to anybody who likes what they do. The last thing you want is someone from the government showing up and saying "I'm here to help", whether they're from Westminster or Brussels.

Also... going by that, why should the EU regulate the manufacture and sale of crowd control munitions? After all, ordinary people just want to make stuff and sell it to anybody who likes what they do, right?

[Little stoned kiwi]

What's the UK police/military going to be using when the rioting and looting starts?

[gravy]

Join in

[PFVA]

I saw somewhere on the news they have plans to move the Queen from London for safety purposes in case of an hard Brexit.

[Barney]

Its a terrible thing to happen, and I feel for the victims. But in other countries, protestors are shot with weapons that are considerably more than "less-than-lethal", some of which are supplied (or originated in) by EU members; perhaps have a go at the EU for not doing anything about that either...?

That sounds awfully like "But what about the other countries who do it worse?", you know?

[F-ZeroOne]

That wasn't my intent, but I take the point.

[KlaxonCow]

I saw somewhere on the news they have plans to move the Queen from London for safety purposes in case of an hard Brexit.

In fairness to Liz, I'm pretty sure she'll say "no".

They had plans to move the Royals during the Blitz, but the family said "no, we'll take our chances, just like everyone else". They realised what them running away would look like - what message it would send to everyone - so they refused to budge.

(And there's the story that, on VE day, her and Princess Anne snuck out - disguised as plebs - and joined the celebrations with everyone else. No bodyguards, security was not informed. They just did it anyway. So it's not just "the message it sends" thing, but Liz herself, fair play to the old dear, has got more gumption in her than you might credit. Its her personality - one will command them to fuck off.)

As a humanist, I fundamentally disagree, on principle, that the job of "Monarch" should even exist in the first place. The only authority is the truth. But, also as a humanist, I endeavour to see the human being underlying it all and, on that score, I've no problem with Liz herself, as a person, just doing a job (even if that job itself is bollocks). She's always done the job - such as it is - flawlessly, remaining apolitical, deferring to Parliament and all that jazz. In those rare places where she's been able to demonstrate it, she's got balls, compassion, a good sense of humour and has never abused her position for personal gain - attributes that would actually be quite nice to be found in our politicians, quite frankly.

She's a perfectly benevolent dictator, I'd say. But I just don't believe that there should be dictators, full stop, regardless of how benevolent they might or might not be (because there's always, of course, the possibility that the next one along in the chain is a complete malicious arsehole - and autocracy is just pragmatically a very poor choice of leadership model, as a single person can't be expert in everything and so decisions ought to be collective to take full advantage of different people who know much better for different situations. That's just being sensible and logical, I reckon. So, yeah, I'm equally not a fan of the notion of "Presidents" either and am a Parliamentarian, in that sense. Personally, I'd simply have no "head of state" whatsoever - the Parliament, collectively, is such.)

[Barney]

Personally, I'd simply have no "head of state" whatsoever - the Parliament, collectively, is such.

While I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post, I think that not having a figurehead would be worse than what we have now simply because of two things -

1. People naturally tend to want to get behind someone (I think we've discussed this previously)

and

2. I just had an image in my head of the entire parliament being bundled onto a plane to go be nice to some other world leader for a few days.

[VNVObit]

I saw somewhere on the news they have plans to move the Queen from London for safety purposes in case of an hard Brexit.

In fairness to Liz, I'm pretty sure she'll say "no".

They had plans to move the Royals during the Blitz, but the family said "no, we'll take our chances, just like everyone else". They realised what them running away would look like - what message it would send to everyone - so they refused to budge.

(And there's the story that, on VE day, her and Princess Anne snuck out - disguised as plebs - and joined the celebrations with everyone else. No bodyguards, security was not informed. They just did it anyway. So it's not just "the message it sends" thing, but Liz herself, fair play to the old dear, has got more gumption in her than you might credit. Its her personality - one will command them to fuck off.)

As a humanist, I fundamentally disagree, on principle, that the job of "Monarch" should even exist in the first place. The only authority is the truth. But, also as a humanist, I endeavour to see the human being underlying it all and, on that score, I've no problem with Liz herself, as a person, just doing a job (even if that job itself is bollocks). She's always done the job - such as it is - flawlessly, remaining apolitical, deferring to Parliament and all that jazz. In those rare places where she's been able to demonstrate it, she's got balls, compassion, a good sense of humour and has never abused her position for personal gain - attributes that would actually be quite nice to be found in our politicians, quite frankly.

She's a perfectly benevolent dictator, I'd say. But I just don't believe that there should be dictators, full stop, regardless of how benevolent they might or might not be (because there's always, of course, the possibility that the next one along in the chain is a complete malicious arsehole - and autocracy is just pragmatically a very poor choice of leadership model, as a single person can't be expert in everything and so decisions ought to be collective to take full advantage of different people who know much better for different situations. That's just being sensible and logical, I reckon. So, yeah, I'm equally not a fan of the notion of "Presidents" either and am a Parliamentarian, in that sense. Personally, I'd simply have no "head of state" whatsoever - the Parliament, collectively, is such.)

I have no issue with head of state provide there is a specific role. In Republic of Ireland the president is, in effect, the guardian of the constitution (i.e. government passes the law and it is the president's role, supported by legal professionals, to confirm such laws are compatible with the constitution) and I am fine with that as it is another check on government rather than an executive head of state (US)

Like you I don't agree with hereditary monarchies but that is a reflection on the individual currently in post just on the inherent inequality and undemocratic nature of a monarchy.

not sure I'd agree with the statement " has never abused her position for personal gain" as she and her family do have favourable tax treatment over everyone else (it was negotiated). She pays no tax on Benefit-in-kind for Buckingham palace (though from conversation with HMRC on BIK for key worker accommodation, I was acting on behalf of a provider and looking to eliminate the BIK charge for key workers, the level of tax on the palace would not be that exorbitant.)

[sack]

What's the UK police/military going to be using when the rioting and looting starts?

Looking at the average person I see on Facebook that threatens to riot in the even of no (or a watered down) Brexit I think they're going to be using Stannah Stairlifts.

So maybe the police could just cut the power?

[WiteWulf]

Looking at the average person I see on Facebook that threatens to riot in the even of no (or a watered down) Brexit I think they're going to be using Stannah Stairlifts.

So maybe the police could just cut the power?

Or leave an open bag of Werther's Originals somewhere nearby?

[merman]

Stockpiling body bags now...

Oh, and that dodgy ferry contract only cost £800,000 in consultants fees.

[skab]

Stockpiling body bags now...

Are the gravediggers in Liverpool on strike again?

[VNVObit]

Stockpiling body bags now...

Are the gravediggers in Liverpool on strike again?

Nah soylent green inc have pitched for a role to provide food in the event of Food shortages from usual suppliers