EU referendum are you in or out

[Cloudane]

As I understood Bercow's justification for not putting his foot down on the 2nd vote, it was because it'd been presented as "legally binding changes" (and so a similar meaningless tweak could still theoretically work)

However, I can't help suspecting that he just let it slide last time and is covering his arse with a retrospective take on it now that he's had enough and decided to make a stand. Not that I can blame him for that at all.

[Cloudane]

France to reject any extension unless she can guarantee the deal will pass (Which she can't, nor can she even put it to the house a third time anyway)

That concludes it IMO. No deal on 29th, 100%

[merman]

France to reject any extension unless she can guarantee the deal will pass (Which she can't, nor can she even put it to the house a third time anyway)

That concludes it IMO. No deal on 29th, 100%

Well, Donald Tusk is saying the "legal assurances" Theresa Maybe secured last week COULD be formalised if it allows her deal to pass.

So yet again we have her fait accompli - her deal or no deal.

Which is a daft reason to seek an extension if nothing is going to change anyway.

[(o)(o)]

As a vehicle, Theresa May is the optimal prey for the vested interests of the Tory party.

A puppet, basking temporarily in the limelight to be disposed of at the Korrekt moment.

Her "Bloody difficult woman" facade belies a creature of ultimate obedience to vested interests who stand to gain from No Deal. In systems theory the strategy is playing out well. The clock has been run down and conditions imposed which make No Deal more and more increasingly likely

Only time will tell if there is enough will of the people to restrain this fascist!

[Absolute_Zero]

France to reject any extension unless she can guarantee the deal will pass (Which she can't, nor can she even put it to the house a third time anyway)

That concludes it IMO. No deal on 29th, 100%

Wanna bet? Here's my bet...

France, after some justified whingeing will fall in behind Tusk... who's primarily oriented around Ireland's needs and wishes. Varadker has asked for some slack and he will get it.

That the EU is expected to offer a conditional extension, completely changes the all-important context. Do you really think Bercow is going to force no-deal himself by refusing a final meaningful vote? Actually, his ruling on Monday did May a favour... pushing it out to next week places that vote right on the cliff-edge, where she should win.

December 19

Reality: if she successfully backs the HoC up to the cliff-edge in the form of her deal vs the default [falling out] then the only way we're going over that edge is if Parliament doesn't support the motion.

The opposition [in its non-ERG/DUP forms] will lie between a rock and a very hard place. If you believe that no-deal is worse than a "bad" deal, how do you justify indirectly voting for no-deal by voting down the bad deal?

You won't like it but the solution is [too] obvious: vote for May's deal.

Nothing much has changed since then.

[Harlequin]

Unless Mrs May can terrify at least seventy-five more MPs at the cliff edge, it looks like she is going to resign as Prime Minister.

[IronGiant]

Has anyone seen the Revoke Article 50 petition on the government's site?

Signatures are coming in incredibly fast. The site is though up and down due to the load, it cannae take it captain.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

[Cloudane]

Wanna bet?

Done so yesterday.

If I lose my 50 quid, I couldn't be happier

[gilesgoat]

Has anyone seen the Revoke Article 50 petition on the government's site?

Signatures are coming in incredibly fast. The site is though up and down due to the load, it cannae take it captain.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Problem is from what I read "it could just do nothing" apart maybe "confirm" in some way that "there's some discontent".

If I am reading correctly they can simply choose to ignore all that or "it just tells them what they already well know and they still are chosing to ignore".

Will it make any difference ? Hopefully yes but .. mah ...

[edit] now, NO KIDDING, ok you can tell me "go and study in the books" fine maybe I should honestly I hoped I did not need it but .. .. makes the question .. "HOW EXACTLY democracy works in UK ??".

Gives the really the feeling "the people are there for almost nothing" .. you vote .. they do what they want .. you talk .. they do what they want .. you want things to change .. they do what they want .. there's a petition .. they can ignore it if they want .. even the "Brexit Referendum" itself "it's bogus" because THEY COULD TOTALLY IGNORE IT and say "no we are not doing it" .. but THAT ONE they WANT TO DO IT .. even if some people now "don't want to do it any more".

Also that was a rigged referendum but let's say again it's a case of they do what THEY want to do.

So when it's what THEY want to do "it's binding" when it's NOT what they want to do "it's not binding" ..

So what "real power" have "the people" other then listening to being told all time "it's the will of that people" ( when the will is convenient ) ..

Does look to me "almost nothing" ?

[Misfit]

Has anyone seen the Revoke Article 50 petition on the government's site?

Signatures are coming in incredibly fast. The site is though up and down due to the load, it cannae take it captain.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

I'm surprised it is going so quickly as the emails to confirm are not coming out quickly at all!

[Cloudane]

I've signed it for what little good it'll do. It'll get "considered for debate" in the same way a parent does the "okay I'll think about it right I've thought about it the answer's still no" thing to a child, and receive the usual canned response from the government about how 17.4 million people voted leave in 2016 and it'd be undemocratic to go against their wishes (ignoring the strong indications recently that many have changed their minds now they can see more clearly the consequences)
Unless of course the petition gets to 17.5 million, that'd be interesting.

(I'm well aware that a petition is not the same thing as a referendum and that one cannot possibly compare the numbers; the government however would absolutely treat it that way)

The one hope I have is that it at least lends support to some kind of second vote or remain leaning amendment if/when the boomerang deal comes back.

[Misfit]

I've signed it for what little good it'll do. It'll get "considered for debate" in the same way a parent does the "okay I'll think about it right I've thought about it the answer's still no" thing to a child, and receive the usual canned response from the government about how 17.4 million people voted leave in 2016 and it'd be undemocratic to go against their wishes (ignoring the strong indications recently that many have changed their minds now they can see more clearly the consequences)
Unless of course the petition gets to 17.5 million, that'd be interesting.

(I'm well aware that a petition is not the same thing as a referendum and that one cannot possibly compare the numbers; the government however would absolutely treat it that way)

The one hope I have is that it at least lends support to some kind of second vote or remain leaning amendment if/when the boomerang deal comes back.

Still not got the email. About 50k people have signed since I requested it about 35 mins ago.

[merman]

I've signed it for what little good it'll do. It'll get "considered for debate" in the same way a parent does the "okay I'll think about it right I've thought about it the answer's still no" thing to a child, and receive the usual canned response from the government about how 17.4 million people voted leave in 2016 and it'd be undemocratic to go against their wishes (ignoring the strong indications recently that many have changed their minds now they can see more clearly the consequences)
Unless of course the petition gets to 17.5 million, that'd be interesting.

(I'm well aware that a petition is not the same thing as a referendum and that one cannot possibly compare the numbers; the government however would absolutely treat it that way)

The one hope I have is that it at least lends support to some kind of second vote or remain leaning amendment if/when the boomerang deal comes back.

I signed a previous petition asking for a clear Brexit plan before February 25th.
Parliament debated it on March 5th.


So now Theresa Maybe tries to shift the blame onto MPs for her terrible negotiations.
And she "hopes" Britain will leave with a deal.

That's up to you, you incompetent Thatcher-lite.

[snaff]

Has anyone seen the Revoke Article 50 petition on the government's site?

Signatures are coming in incredibly fast. The site is though up and down due to the load, it cannae take it captain.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Bots.

[Misfit]

Has anyone seen the Revoke Article 50 petition on the government's site?

Signatures are coming in incredibly fast. The site is though up and down due to the load, it cannae take it captain.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Bots.

They're doing a very nice spread of UK postcodes if it is bots...