EU referendum are you in or out

[Harlequin]

As the petition itself requests, can we please stop rewriting history as if the Leave vote was the universal and unanimous "Will of the People", and anything else must be "bots" or "Russians" because, apparently, the 16 million odd people who didn't vote for Brexit don't exist and only the slightly greater 17 million who said "fuck off" count for anything?

Only those who voted to leave are 'The People'. The 62.5% of the electorate who are reported not to have done so simply do not exist.

This message is brought to you by a figment of the Electoral Commission's imagination.

[snaff]

[gilesgoat]

As the petition itself requests, can we please stop rewriting history as if the Leave vote was the universal and unanimous "Will of the People", and anything else must be "bots" or "Russians" because, apparently, the 16 million odd people who didn't vote for Brexit don't exist and only the slightly greater 17 million who said "fuck off" count for anything?

Only those who voted to leave are 'The People'. The 62.5% of the electorate who are reported not to have done so simply do not exist.

This message is brought to you by a figment of the Electoral Commission's imagination.

For as much as it saddens me to say I have the feeling that all that - the petition and the London march - have little effect.

And the problem itself is really in the numbers, you still talking 4 million people vs 17 million, it's still nearly 2/3 lower of what it would need to send a strong message.

It's more than clear that not even if Jesus would come back walking the street of London tomorrow they are NOT going to give a second referendum, they should admit that "they fuked up royally" - AND THEY DID - when they made the first one it really "mines the idea of democracy/government that woks" because now it's more then clear that "in all this, it did NOT work".

They put "everything" in a non-workable no-good ending situation no matter what, the more they tried things the worse they got, in a way this march/petition shows "it's still worse than how it started".

The moral of the story is "you don't do a referendum and/or take decisions of that caliber that lightly", as they did, with almost 0 thinking to consequences of all sorts and only thinking at a temporary political gain for a party.

What wonders me is "what/if people will be vote next ?" .. are people going to vote for Tory/Labour again ? I'd say NOT with the current parties/people, they ALL failed, miserably.

NEW people are needed, NEW parties maybe but the problem is "do we have them ?" and the answer is "NO, we don't" on the top of that "a lot of peole in UK keeps thinking the same way" and that's why "the same things are still present".

So .. overall .. seems "unsolvable" .. in short time at least ..

In a way I too start to believe that MAYBE "no deal" IS the only option in the sense of "OK we FUCK OFF EVERYTHING", EVERYTHING and then you can re-start(*) "as you like" but you will have to RECONSTRUCT everything and make it work again.

(*) .. which opens two questions like :

1. are you really able to do it .. "in not too long time", my person answer could be "No because nobody can"

2. (*) is it really going to work as you think it should be working "yes let's start again OUR way", my personal answer is "No because nothing ever works as one thinks it should or would"

You are gambling in both 1,2 because reality is you cannot possibly know.

It could be that "no deal we restart as we like" could end up in even worse than now and before and then what ? .. Let's re-join the EU again ? And what if "you are too out of parameters" to re-join it again and it's going to take other 20 .. 30 years for that to happen ?

So don't know it's really a "fail, fail" situation or "damned if you do, damned it you don't" .. you are damned in any case.

So yeah maybe the only thing would be a deal, if ever possible, but how long is going to be to get anywhere ?

Maybe the real deal you have to strike is with Ireland more than anyone else ? Which BTW is EU and you are getting out of it, but there's not only Ireland and its border but the rest of the world watching about it.

It's really a super fucked up situation :/

[(o)(o)]

It is high time to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.

Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.

Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?

Ye have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God's help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place.

Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!

[gilesgoat]

*snip*

In the name of God, go!

<Dark humor>

The Roman Catholic god ?

The Protestant God ?

The pagan God ?

The Money god ?

Other god ?

"Their God says Brexit is Brexit it's the Will Of the People".

https://pbfcomics.com/comics/spelling/

</Dark humor>

[gilesgoat]

Now this is "funny" .. I am here receiving emails from my accountant telling me basically "pay this, pay that, the government increased this, the government will increase that soon == give us even more money".

So I am kinda "paying a lot of money for those that do things I don't want them to do" and in a way I am paying for my own destruction of the things I don't want get destroyed and I cannot refuse to pay.

Ironic is it ? I am fundamentally paying for Brexit while of course being for non-Brexit.

[Rhythm]

As the petition itself requests, can we please stop rewriting history as if the Leave vote was the universal and unanimous "Will of the People", and anything else must be "bots" or "Russians" because, apparently, the 16 million odd people who didn't vote for Brexit don't exist and only the slightly greater 17 million who said "fuck off" count for anything?

Only those who voted to leave are 'The People'. The 62.5% of the electorate who are reported not to have done so simply do not exist.

This message is brought to you by a figment of the Electoral Commission's imagination.

It's much more convoluted than that, even. The Tories and Labour are talking about not "disenfranchising" the 17.4 million who voted Leave, whilst disregarding the 16.1m who voted remain. But break it down and they're actually also ignoring:

- the portion of the 17.4m who thought "Leave" meant something other than what will be delivered
- the population of 16-18 year olds who weren't able to vote but who would now be able to if the ref were run again
- the population of 12-15 year olds who weren't old enough to vote anywhere but who will be able to vote come the next General Election
- the 3m Brits in Europe

So is the portion of the "leave" electorate who would actually be happy with May's deal really a big enough component to be fighting over?

[skab]

So is the portion of the "leave" electorate who would actually be happy with May's deal really a big enough component to be fighting over?

They are stabbing people, so yes. Afraid of the plebs.

And since the Tories and Labour both like the idea of a Brexit, why not?

[zip accident]

So is the portion of the "leave" electorate who would actually be happy with May's deal really a big enough component to be fighting over?

They are stabbing people, so yes. Afraid of the plebs.

And since the Tories and Labour both like the idea of a Brexit, why not?

I'm beginning to think there may actually be a civil war over this.

[Harlequin]

So is the portion of the "leave" electorate who would actually be happy with May's deal really a big enough component to be fighting over?

They are stabbing people, so yes. Afraid of the plebs.

Are you certain that they like May's agreement or do they want a different (e.g. harder/no-deal/other) Brexit?

[merman]

Theresa Maybe: "I have tried to unlock the Brexit door twice with the wrong key. It's jammed shut. So I'm going to use the same key again, even when the locksmith has told me not to."

Oh, and "taking back control" - that means former Cabinet ministers who lied to the public get to hold behind-closed-door meetings at Chequers to decide whether or not the incompetent Prime Minister stays in her job.

But apparently two million people marching to oppose something is "undemocratic"...

[snaff]

But apparently two million people marching to oppose something is "undemocratic"...

More like 300,000.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit- ... crowd-size

“Based on the visuals from the helicopter image, it’s between 312,000 and 400,000 people,” explains Manchester Metropolitan University’s Keith Still, a world leader in crowd science who has developed mandatory event-monitoring training for police. (He also debunked Donald Trump’s claims about the numbers attending his inauguration in 2017.) “Avoiding the political overtones – Trump, the Eagles, Brexit – and inevitable arguments, it’s not surprising that there are few people who would dare to quote numbers. However, the numbers don’t lie.”

[PFVA]

I think the MPs just got control Brexit?

From the EU side they Tusk says all options (deal, no deal, extendenting date to leave, or revoking art. 50) are open till April 12.

I a kind of wonder how History books will explain or relate this process 40 or 50 years from now.

[Cloudane]

MPs think they have control but Dictator Maybot still calls the shots and can just ignore the indicative votes if the result doesn't suit her (which anything but her deal won't)

She said she'd hold "constructive" talks which is code for more of the same ignoring them all and trying to "talk them round" to her dead horse

[KlaxonCow]

More like 300,000.

I wouldn't play that game, if I were you.

Because, meanwhile, Farage's "March to Leave" has gathered, at best and most generously, about 75 people (by its own supporter's estimate):

https://www.indy100.com/article/kate-ho ... er-8837336

I repeat, zero conspiracy theories are required.

We had a vote on this. And, yes, over 17 million people voted to leave. But, equally, over 16 million people voted to remain.

Do I need to re-post the Electoral Commission's graphic again?



Leave won the vote. But nearly half the people who voted - only fractionally fewer people - voted Remain.

Look at our own unscientific poll here on the forums - which, sure, might well not be representative of the country as a whole, as we're a self-selected group - and Remain won our own vote.

Why this bizarre psychological need to rewrite history and pretend like there was zero disagreement and there were no "Remain" votes at all?

We don't need any conspiracy theories. 16 million voted Remain. In the meantime, with the incompetent handling of Brexit since, it's unlikely that there's been too much of a ground swell of changed opinions from the Remain voters to jump ship to Leave. And we don't know how many Leave voters have, witnessing the inability of politicians to sort it out, jumped ship in the other direction and would now vote to remain on a Second Referendum.

Why, oh why, is there this strange need to "delete" the concept that there were - and still are - people who disagreed with you?

Honestly, I'm doing you a favour. Because when you invoke "Moon landing hoax lizard people controlling us with brainwave machines" conspiracies, just because there's some significant size of opposition who doesn't agree with you, then you're really not doing your argument any favours whatsoever or convincing anyone you're on the right side of anything, you loony.