EU referendum are you in or out

[Rubisco]

So, on Thursday, vote to Remain. But please to God don't vote for the Brexit Party - currently under investigation by the EU over the donation of £450,000 by Aaron Banks to Nigel "milkshake" Farage...

Thank christ we live in a world where politicians don't get shot dead by far-right lunatics, so we can all enjoy the milkshake thing as a bit of harmless banter.

[Absolute_Zero]

@Klaxon: check out Göbekli Tepe

6,000 years before Stonehenge and waaay more sophisticated.

"Göbekli Tepe changes everything"

[snaff]

@Klaxon: check out Göbekli Tepe

6,000 years before Stonehenge and waaay more sophisticated.

"Göbekli Tepe changes everything"

Like the Romans inheriting Greek civilisation, the Egyptians could have inherited the pyramids. They might go way further back as well.

[Harlequin]

It was Ancient Greece that was the enormous technical innovator.

There does not have to be only one.

Other great scientific, technological and mathematical innovators included China, Arabia and India.

… Watching folks who don't have "a real job", pretending in front of cameras to be people who they aren't. Lying to me for my amusement. Them "luvvies". But mock them all you like, they have the last laugh because we all do watch Game of Thrones or Star Wars or Star Trek or whatever else on the TV or in the movies, and thoroughly love it. Because that's humans for you. We just love stories.

Thank you.

[tufty]

Must solve Irish border problem by the end of 2020

There's 3 solutions to the Irish border problem that don't break the GFA or EU rules, viz:

1 - The UK doesn't leave the EU
2 - Eire leaves the EU and forms a customs union with the UK
3 - Reunification of the two Irelands.

[Dio]

And why the DUP can't see this I have no idea.

[gilesgoat]

Must solve Irish border problem by the end of 2020

There's 3 solutions to the Irish border problem that don't break the GFA or EU rules, viz:

1 - The UK doesn't leave the EU
2 - Eire leaves the EU and forms a customs union with the UK
3 - Reunification of the two Irelands.

Eh but .. 1 .. 'that depends on UK', 2 Eire does not want to leave EU, 3 'would UK ever give it back to Eire ??' what about all those people claiming 'they are British they DO NOT want to be part of Eire' ?

I can see only '1' as a solution.

[edit] - it's fucked up, it's fucked up, it's fucked up, they did not think about it enough !!

Maybe they could end up 'in the interest of avoiding a civil war for years to come we'll take '1' '.

[Dio]

I see 3 as pretty much inevitable after any Brexit (except the utterly pointless full customs union Brexit, possibly).

It starts out with an Irish Sea border and ends up with reunification in 15-20 years.

[tufty]

Personally, I think Irish reunification has always been pretty much inevitable post the Good Friday Agreement, regardless of the entire Brexit omnishambles. You'll note, however, that the 3 options I enumerated above only hold if you are not willing to break the GFA.

Are politicians willing to put personal gain (or even perceived party stability) above the lives of those in Ireland and sacrifice the GFA at the altar of Brexit? Absolutely. Are the DUP willing to sacrifice the GFA (or, rather, have *Westminster* sacrifice it) for a guarantee of ties to the UK in the future, with the added bonus of stoking up the fires of hatred and reaping the unionist vote that would entail, regardless of the deaths that may well come with it? If they can get away with it, I'd say "probably".

We are ruled by Scooby-Doo villains.

[Dio]

I think that's a false distinction, because I suspect that NI would (eventually, over a similar timescale) unify with Ireland if the GFA was violated.

I certainly see your point and you're clearly right about the divisiveness, but I think it's bigger than the politicians because there's plenty of options for very complicated legals, and I think it evolves as rapidly as the legal process allows into an Irish Sea border.

I mean, this goes into the key argument against the dreamland of hard Brexit: it's not an endpoint. You're going to have to make some kind of deal with the EU at some point, you're going to have to handle the legals about the divorce bill, you're going to have to work out where the fuck Ireland is. (I'm not sure Rees-Mogg is very clear on that latter part). And all of it very possibly toot sweet due to economic disruption. The EU will most likely be the first of the horribly one-sided deals the UK will end up signing.

Frankly, I think the best argument for Remain at this point to the general electorate is "You want all this to go away? Let's stay. Otherwise, you're going to be talking about nothing but Brexit for THE NEXT TWENTY FUCKING YEARS."

[merman]

So, on Thursday, vote to Remain. But please to God don't vote for the Brexit Party - currently under investigation by the EU over the donation of £450,000 by Aaron Banks to Nigel "milkshake" Farage...

Thank christ we live in a world where politicians don't get shot dead by far-right lunatics, so we can all enjoy the milkshake thing as a bit of harmless banter.

Two points on that.
1. Eight days after Jo Cox died, Farage crowed that the Leave campaign had won "without a shot being fired"
2. Farage recently said he would "pick up a rifle and be on the frontline" if Brexit didn't happen.

In this context, making him look foolish by throwing a dairy-based beverage over him is harmless in the grand scheme of things. I see it as a legitimate protest against someone who has lied and cheated democracy, as well as made a lot of money while claiming to be a "man of the people".*

And speaking of money, Rees-Mogg's company has made profits of £47 million since Brexit, meaning he himself pockets at least 7 million. He won't be affected by Brexit.



*There is a strong case to argue that Farage manipulated the money markets on the night of the referendum, by using a TV appearance to claim Remain were ahead "by 10-15 points" while his mates in the City speculated on the outcome...

[zip accident]

Are politicians willing to put personal gain (or even perceived party stability) above the lives of those in Ireland and sacrifice the GFA at the altar of Brexit? Absolutely. Are the DUP willing to sacrifice the GFA (or, rather, have *Westminster* sacrifice it) for a guarantee of ties to the UK in the future, with the added bonus of stoking up the fires of hatred and reaping the unionist vote that would entail, regardless of the deaths that may well come with it? If they can get away with it, I'd say "probably".

I'd say certainly. There were people who were prepared to bomb mainland Britain for Irish unity, and the only reason that there weren't people prepared to bomb Britain to stop Irish unity was that there was no way that bombing Britain would stop Irish unity. There will be no Irish unity until the last of the protestant hardliners is in a concentration camp or dead.

[Ratsoap]

There will be no Irish unity until the last of the protestant hardliners is in a concentration camp or dead.

This. The Irish states might one day fall under the same governance, but there will never be unity. I attended a university that was 25% NI students. Those guys are *mental*, to a degree that cannot be comprehended by folks from the mainland.

Otherwise, you're going to be talking about nothing but Brexit for THE NEXT TWENTY FUCKING YEARS."

I have a civil servant friend in his late thirties who is working on Brexit negotiations. He's been told he has a job for life...

[snaff]

So, on Thursday, vote to Remain. But please to God don't vote for the Brexit Party - currently under investigation by the EU over the donation of £450,000 by Aaron Banks to Nigel "milkshake" Farage...

Thank christ we live in a world where politicians don't get shot dead by far-right lunatics, so we can all enjoy the milkshake thing as a bit of harmless banter.

Two points on that.
1. Eight days after Jo Cox died, Farage crowed that the Leave campaign had won "without a shot being fired"
2. Farage recently said he would "pick up a rifle and be on the frontline" if Brexit didn't happen.

In this context, making him look foolish by throwing a dairy-based beverage over him is harmless in the grand scheme of things. I see it as a legitimate protest against someone who has lied and cheated democracy, as well as made a lot of money while claiming to be a "man of the people".*

And speaking of money, Rees-Mogg's company has made profits of £47 million since Brexit, meaning he himself pockets at least 7 million. He won't be affected by Brexit.



*There is a strong case to argue that Farage manipulated the money markets on the night of the referendum, by using a TV appearance to claim Remain were ahead "by 10-15 points" while his mates in the City speculated on the outcome...

Speaking of money that milkshake cost 5 pounds and the guy throwing it is a call centre worker on minimum wage. If Jacob Rees-Mogg worked in a call centre he wouldn't spend 5 pounds on a milkshake and then spill it. That's why he earns 7 million and you don't.

[gilesgoat]

So, on Thursday, vote to Remain. But please to God don't vote for the Brexit Party - currently under investigation by the EU over the donation of £450,000 by Aaron Banks to Nigel "milkshake" Farage...

Thank christ we live in a world where politicians don't get shot dead by far-right lunatics, so we can all enjoy the milkshake thing as a bit of harmless banter.

Two points on that.
1. Eight days after Jo Cox died, Farage crowed that the Leave campaign had won "without a shot being fired"
2. Farage recently said he would "pick up a rifle and be on the frontline" if Brexit didn't happen.

In this context, making him look foolish by throwing a dairy-based beverage over him is harmless in the grand scheme of things. I see it as a legitimate protest against someone who has lied and cheated democracy, as well as made a lot of money while claiming to be a "man of the people".*

And speaking of money, Rees-Mogg's company has made profits of £47 million since Brexit, meaning he himself pockets at least 7 million. He won't be affected by Brexit.



*There is a strong case to argue that Farage manipulated the money markets on the night of the referendum, by using a TV appearance to claim Remain were ahead "by 10-15 points" while his mates in the City speculated on the outcome...

Speaking of money that milkshake cost 5 pounds and the guy throwing it is a call centre worker on minimum wage. If Jacob Rees-Mogg worked in a call centre he wouldn't spend 5 pounds on a milkshake and then spill it. That's why he earns 7 million and you don't.