EU referendum are you in or out

[KlaxonCow]

And just to relate the above to the primary topic of this thread:

UKIP has eaten itself.

Forcing Farage to "schism" off the Brexit Party. Except, of course, nothing has fundamentally changed, so the racists'll just eventually invade and destroy this one too.

And we can watch the Tories - who've electorally annihilated themselves over this issue - have their "race to the bottom" leadership contest, where they'll scramble over one another to be the true standard bearer of a "true Brexit", as "the one true Brexiteer".

And, for its believers, no Brexit is good enough.

No Brexit is "true Brexit", unless we instantly leave with no deal, refusing to pay anything and that we "punish" all EU citizens in this country.

(And even if we did that, then even that still won't be remotely good enough. Because the Brexiteers have done nothing but moan that nothing is ever good enough for them, ever since they won the referendum. Yes, they won. But you'd be forgiven, from how they plead being the eternal victims of "Project Fear" regardless, of not even realising that these guys were victorious, as they act like everyone's out to get them and they're victims, in spite of that. Because nothing can satisfy them - as their "one true Brexit" is some unreachable impossible abstract concept that they're chasing forever.)

Although, it should be noted that, before the referendum, Farage was mildly suggesting perhaps the Norway model.

The Brexiteers have been engaging in a "race to the bottom" over who's really a "true Brexiteer" by - like those four Yorkshiremen of Python - competing on whose got the "truest" vision of a "true Brexit", as the standard bearer of "the one true Brexit".

Nothing is ever good enough, so it just gets worse and worse and worse.

Bojo'll probably win the Premiership on the back of a promise of waterboarding all EU citizens in the UK - wow, he's the most true believer of the true believers! His hatred is off the scale. He is "the one true Brexiteer".

The EU painted as a bigger and bigger Satanic monster - with its evil straight bananas of death - which must be vanquished by "the one true Brexiteer", drifting further and further away from any semblance of reality.

It is a slow, collective descent into madness.

[gilesgoat]

*SNIP*

It is a slow, collective descent into madness.

No, it isn't ..

1. you are already into madness, it's a descent into more madness

2. it's not even that slow ...

[edit] - I think part of the problem you can not achieve 'a true brexit' is because they want stuff that 'it's not really a brexit', so why don't remain in instead ?

"The true brexit" in a sense it really would be the "no deal start all over again" but that's like resetting the clock with the added malus that "you are going to start with a really tainted reputation" so yeah after you "upset" basically all the sates you are going to re-negotiate with ( also with the "tremendous negotiating skills" the leader(s) have" ) you can see how even worse it's going to be.

It's like the thermonuclear global war, the only option is not to play it but now it's too late because you started the game and brought it to a weird point of almost weirder non-return.

You could have use the fact you are in EU to make more negotiations while in EU, i am sure it would have gone much better than this but now again it's too late for that.

So where's all this now ? Fuck knows, in a huge pile of shit so far.

I can't see any "bright future" for the next 40 years or so .. if enough ..

But don't worry "you'll be fine" with your "eternal friend".

... that at this point will have the power of "if I say jump, you JUMP !" ..

[zip accident]

I see five tomorrows to fear.

1/ Islam take over the world. No theft. No women's rights. Honour killings allowed. FGM allowed, maybe. Science probably only allowed as a hobby.

No chance.

The entire reason why Islam has been playing up with terrorism and the like, is because Western culture, carrying scientific modernity and liberal values, was kicking its arse. The West was offering jeans and Coke and Hollywood movies. It's now offering the Internet and mobile phones.

Look up Sayd Kutb, who was the spiritual father of Al Qu'eda - by their own reckoning, as they labelled themselves Kutb's "vanguard" that he called for to defend the faith from "the distant enemy". He was an Egyptian school teacher and went on a trip to America, in the 1950s, as part of that. He saw, in his own eyes, "moral depravity" as boys and girls danced together at the school prom, and he was convinced that American lawn care was a symptom of their "Satanic" vanity.

Then he returned to his own Egypt and saw, at that time, everyone drinking Coke and wearing jeans and watching the latest Hollywood movies - as American exports were thoroughly "invading" Egyptian culture - and, thus, felt that this "Jahiliyyah" (an ignorance of Allah) would take over, unless Islam mounted its own armed resistance to these "Satanic forces" that were, let's be clear, easily winning the battle.

Because, to quote Richard Dawkins: "Science. It works, bitches".

Religion can give you a nice comfortable warm fuzzy feeling. A false hope in the face of bereavement.

But it doesn't physically extend your lifespan, as modern medicine does. It doesn't allow you to communicate with anyone on the planet instantly, as the Internet does. It doesn't, through computer graphics and advanced editing and filming equipment and the art of special effects, bring you the latest exciting Hollywood blockbuster. It doesn't give you a phone, it doesn't give refrigeration, it doesn't give you globalised food exports that everything's always "in season" all year round.

It can't give you an explanation for the diversity of life (no, "magic did it" does not count as a genuine explanation of anything). It can't tell you where the Moon came from, nor land any people to walk upon it. It will erroneously tell you so much bullshit, such as that women are inferior, gays are "an abomination", that kow-towing 5 times a day to your imaginary friend will actually do something, that you can't eat delicious bacon or have a laugh getting drunk with your mates, etc.

Religion is dying. These are the death throes. The whimpering fight back to its on-coming doom.

(The fastest growing "religion" in the world, when tallied up, is actually "irreligious" - atheists, agnostics, "spiritual but not religious", etc.)

Its tactics are those of utter desperation: suicide bombings and kamikaze pilots. By definition, these are measures of last resort.

It's playing up because it knows it's dead anyway. Like a cornered wolf jumping to attack those who're crowding it into that corner, because it knows it's dead anyway if it does nothing, so it might as well go out in a blaze of glory and take out as many of "the enemy" as possible - there's the slimmest of slim chances that maybe it can knock through a big enough hole to escape and run. But it knows that this is a vain hope, as it launches itself into what is otherwise a totally suicidal desperation tactic.

Most of this is correct, however Islam is expanding, and is already huge.

Further, science is currently saying, quantum did it, what's quantum? magic by another name. There are a lot of wierdnesses with quantum mechanics, like particles that are waves if you look at them wrong, and in the end, there is nothing to quantum theory that wouldn't work just as well if you said magic did it.

2/ "White" racists take over the world. No brown or black people, or mongoloid people.

No chance.

Melanin expression is a dominant gene.

White and white parents = white kid. White and black parents = black kid. Black and white parents = black kid. Black and black parents = black kid.

Do the fucking maths.

(And, given enough time - as the melanin genes exist within everyone, even if not expressed - then humans nearer the equator will be naturally selected for melanin expression, to counter UVB depleting folic acid, a vital requirement in pregnancy. Or, further from the equator, where your primary problem switches to too little vitamin D - required for bone growth, so a lack of sunlight for the skin to produce it, leading to bone growth issues like rickets.

Because the Earth is a ball and we have the "Cosine rule" to contend with on a curved surface. There was, after all, a reason why this stuff originally happened in the first place - and none of those factors have ceased being factors, so reality will eventually re-assert itself and you can never stop that from happening. Not while you live on a ball - and the universe just doesn't actually offer any places to live that aren't ball-shaped.)

I mean, you could keep trying to fight reality. Fight a dominant gene that'll always inevitably return.

But, well, you know the definition of insanity, right?

I'm not saying they aren't mad. If they got enough gas chambers running fast enough, there might not be anyone left to say "told you so".

3/ Han racists take over the world. No Europeans, blacks, browns.

A similar reality-defying nonsense to the white supremacists. See above.

There are a lot of Chinese in China. Some are becoming more militant about ethnicity. The non-han chinese have been having a rough time. It's a mad idea as you say, but it still might happen.

4/ The rich take over the world, no poor people left alive.

Of course, another interpretation of that is "everyone's abundantly rich, and poverty no longer exists". Which would be a good thing.

So it's a question of how it is obtained. The methodology that brings us to this ultimate good state of affairs, where there isn't any real poverty anywhere anymore.

Simply killing the poor cannot logically work. This undermines the very mechanism by which the rich become rich. So such ideology eats itself.

Whilst replacing all the poor - and then even the rich - with robots and AI will undermine the very concept of money itself. As I covered, I've no idea how you could manage the transition painlessly - but, once reached, money would no longer greatly matter, as we've undermined our own "Noble Lie" by this point.

"Poor" is not a nationality, race or religion. It's an injustice to be removed.

You don't think the inequality in this country has been steadily increasing since the 1960s? On a worldwide scale, we're not poor, but our rich have been getting relatively richer and our masses, including the working middle classes, poorer, if they'd do that to us they'd do it to the poor of the third world.

5/ Radical christians rule the world. No blacks, no browns, no mongoloids. Did I mention racists?

Same deal as Islam - but further ahead, as church attendances are increasingly pathetically non-existent. See above for more details.

Yeah, this one is very unlikely, but if they did get the chance I think they'd go for it. The inquisition was horrific.

I don't say these are the only possibilities by any means, but they probably take at least 50% of the possibilities between them.

All of these tribalisms, like tribalism in general, also all suffer from a logical circular "race to the bottom".

Any ideology based on the notion of "perfection" - true Muslims, true Christians, true Aryans, true Han, etc. - will ultimately eat itself.

Let's imagine we're a neo-Nazi. So we send all the Jews, the blacks and the gays to the gas chambers. What now? Well, Hitler doesn't actually fit the Aryan model either. He's not tall, blue eyes and blonde. Heck, he wasn't even born in Germany. Okay, let's send "Herr Fuehrer" to the gas chambers.

Okay, let's keep going. We'll get rid of all non-blondes. All short people.

But, now, in your tall blonde Utopia, you're looking at the remaining humans and, well, that guy's not quite as blonde as those others. And while everyone is tall, that girl over there is not as tall as everyone else. Oh, she's got freckles. Can't have that. Kill them all.

Right, where are we now? Okay, everyone's really blonde and really tall now. So, hmm, that guy who's just fractionally not as blonde as everyone else is now standing out like a sore thumb. "Short" used to mean less than 6 foot, but now that everyone's over 6 foot, then 6' 1" looks "short" now. Kill everyone who's less than 6' 1". Okay, now 6' 2" appears short in this land of the giants. Kill everyone who's less than 6' 2".

And so on and so forth. Fascism eats itself, because it's the ideology of nothing and no-one else ever being good enough.

(A relative measure, so when you absolutely kill off the competition, as it were, then you change the boundaries defining what's relatively "inferior".)

It'll turn on itself. Eat itself. There'll be "schisms" as the definition of what qualifies as a "true whatever" is debated - when, oh look, the "faith" has turned around and is now pointing its accusative finger at you.

(Radical Islam has been killing its own fellow Muslims - not "true" Muslims, you see - in vastly greater numbers than any other demographic.)

Eventually, the spotlight will spin around and stare at you:



(If he had his way, then he'd have the lot of you shot. But the point is, ultimately, he means all of them. Every last one. No-one is good enough. Not even, ultimately, himself. Murder everyone - and then stick a gun in your own mouth. It's nothing more than a frustrated, depressed suicidal rampage in extreme slow motion, is all. Pink's mentally ill, as the rest of the album, guiding you through the various stages of his insanity follows.)


None of these can stand. Because they logically will eat themselves.

But, yes, one must remain vigilant nonetheless. As there are still idiots amongst us, who don't remotely get why they're so obviously wrong and might well try to do it anyway.

Yeah, them doing it anyway although they are blatantly idiots is the problem. Take Brexit for instance.

[Absolute_Zero]

Zero's law: As a YakYak discussion grows longer, the probability of religion becoming involved approaches 1.

[gilesgoat]

Zero's law: As a YakYak discussion grows longer, the probability of religion becoming involved approaches 1.

That goes with politics ...

How many politicians have used sentences like "In the name of God" or "By God's will we .. " or "With God on OUR side we .. " or "By the will of the Virgin Mary" ..

At least pope Francis this time scolded an Italian politician that was ( he still is ) using sentences like those saying "Leave the Virgin Mary out of politics"

[gilesgoat]

I have to say it .. "I better stop watching what's going on BBC News" .. ..

.. makes me loose all the faith in UK, humanity in general, whatever .. I only feel like "we are mega screwed" ...

"It's going to be phenomenal" .. ..

[PFVA]

Don't worry, Trump is promising the UK a phenomenal trade deal.

[Cloudane]

He just isn't saying who will find it phenominal

If we do end up having to deal with Mr "Art of the Deal", that's when I honestly hope we do get one of the hard Brexiteers as PM. He needs someone who's tough to negotiate with, not someone who'll roll over and sell him the NHS - right now the eagle is looking an awful lot like a vulture

[gilesgoat]

He just isn't saying who will find it phenominal

If we do end up having to deal with Mr "Art of the Deal", that's when I honestly hope we do get one of the hard Brexiteers as PM. He needs someone who's tough to negotiate with, not someone who'll roll over and sell him the NHS - right now the eagle is looking an awful lot like a vulture

Remember is AMERICA FIRST NOT UK first ...

[tufty]

He needs someone who's tough to negotiate with,

Who, of the "Hard Brexiteers", has a history of tough negotiation of international treaties? Or, indeed, any negotiation whatsoever?

[snaff]

Forcing Farage to "schism" off the Brexit Party. Except, of course, nothing has fundamentally changed, so the racists'll just eventually invade and destroy this one too.

EU boss Jean Claude Juncker complains that he does not have an Air Force One-style private jet or a grace and a beautiful mansion like other world leaders

[tufty]

Here's the actual interview, linked to by the Daily Mail article you reference but kindly don't bother to link.

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/pol ... .bild.html

And the full, enormously whiny quote :

The Commission doesn’t have its own aeroplane?

Juncker: No. When I was talking to Donald Trump, I was constantly looking at my watch so that I wouldn’t miss my flight home. Trump kept saying, ‘Your ‘plane can wait!’ He didn’t realise that I didn’t have my own aeroplane.

[KlaxonCow]

And I have zero idea why you hooked that one onto what I was saying about Farage.

Which should hardly seem controversial, as that's Farage's own narrative here.

While he was leader of UKIP, he took great pains to make sure that it was not perceived as the racist party - like some sort of "BNP lite" - but when he stepped down as UKIP leader, others took the reigns and, well, Farage himself feels it all went to the dogs in his absence. Which is why he returned with "the Brexit Party", instead of bothering to try to reform UKIP to be the party of Brexit - not racism - once again.

This is a matter of public record - the narrative from Farage and UKIP themselves - not any Ad Hominem on my part:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47926785


And I'm just adding that, in my opinion, if the Brexit Party continues and, once again, Farage returns to "retirement" and lets go of the reigns of leadership, then the same thing will eventually happen to the Brexit Party too - becoming consumed by the racists of the BNP, EDL and so forth - because, simply, this is a 100% repeat of what happened last time to form UKIP in the first place. So nothing has changed, and the racist elements will always want to seek a party that lends them credibility. If the Brexit Party does well, then that'll be the party that they'll all want to attach their names to.

I don't feel that any of that is a particularly Cassandraic thing to suggest, to be honest.

[snaff]

While he was leader of UKIP, he took great pains to make sure that it was not perceived as the racist party - like some sort of "BNP lite" - but when he stepped down as UKIP leader, others took the reigns and, well, Farage himself feels it all went to the dogs in his absence. Which is why he returned with "the Brexit Party", instead of bothering to try to reform UKIP to be the party of Brexit - not racism - once again.

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

[KlaxonCow]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.