EU referendum are you in or out

[phattslagg]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

Fuck off.

[Rubisco]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.

There's no comparison because the antisemitism in the Labour party is coming from the middle class. Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation, it all comes from the ex-student wing. Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist. Would there be such a hoo-hah if UKIP had associated with Douglas Murray? Fundamentally what's Robinson said that Murray hasn't, except without the vocabulary or a plum in his mouth?

[zip accident]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.

There's no comparison because the antisemitism in the Labour party is coming from the middle class. Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation, it all comes from the ex-student wing. Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist. Would there be such a hoo-hah if UKIP had associated with Douglas Murray? Fundamentally what's Robinson said that Murray hasn't, except without the vocabulary or a plum in his mouth?

From a quick glance at Murray's Wikipedia page, one difference is the perceived threat of violence.

[Rubisco]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.

There's no comparison because the antisemitism in the Labour party is coming from the middle class. Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation, it all comes from the ex-student wing. Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist. Would there be such a hoo-hah if UKIP had associated with Douglas Murray? Fundamentally what's Robinson said that Murray hasn't, except without the vocabulary or a plum in his mouth?

From a quick glance at Murray's Wikipedia page, one difference is the perceived threat of violence.

Murray has had a very protected and sheltered upbringing. For Robinson it would have been law of the jungle. Robinson gets physically attacked regularly due to the way he is portrayed, justifiably or otherwise, in the media. He cannot, or at least feels that he cannot, rely on police support which is often given begrudgingly.

The posh boy's freedom of speech is defended. He is assumed to be acting in good faith. Is he somehow less dangerous because his eloquence is more persuasive to those who hold more power?

[zip accident]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.

There's no comparison because the antisemitism in the Labour party is coming from the middle class. Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation, it all comes from the ex-student wing. Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist. Would there be such a hoo-hah if UKIP had associated with Douglas Murray? Fundamentally what's Robinson said that Murray hasn't, except without the vocabulary or a plum in his mouth?

From a quick glance at Murray's Wikipedia page, one difference is the perceived threat of violence.

Murray has had a very protected and sheltered upbringing. For Robinson it would have been law of the jungle. Robinson gets physically attacked regularly due to the way he is portrayed, justifiably or otherwise, in the media. He cannot, or at least feels that he cannot, rely on police support which is often given begrudgingly.

The posh boy's freedom of speech is defended. He is assumed to be acting in good faith. Is he somehow less dangerous because his eloquence is more persuasive to those who hold more power?

Murray doesn't seem that posh, middle class at the most, and Yaxley-Lennon has been in receipt of £2M, which is hardly living in the gutter.

They're both wrong on Brexit.

[F-ZeroOne]

It was interesting to speculate whilst standing in the "EU Passport Holders" queue at the airport in Iceland recently about how Brexit-supporters will feel in future about having to stand in the "Other Nationalities" queue instead...

[KlaxonCow]

Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation

Really?

Then I'd have to fundamentally question the Marxist / socialist credentials of your trade union, then.

Because, you know...

Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist.

No, honestly, his crime is just racism.

That's all. He's a racist cunt and, therefore, just plain factually wrong. End of.

His working class credentials - such as they might be - are perfectly irrelevant here.

For Robinson it would have been law of the jungle.

"Law of the Jungle"?

Fuck me. I'm working class through and through myself. Sorry, but where the fuck is this supposed "jungle" you're talking about?

Nice hype. But you're rather overselling it to retain any useful credibility here.



No. It's not because you is black or you is poor. It's because you is dumb, if you're defending an arsehole who would, push come to shove, never be arsed to defend you back. Not in the slightest. Facists don't actually do mutual reciprocity. Feel free not to believe me on that - I've got the patience to wait for the moment when I can drop the "told you so" on you later.


And I deeply resent the implication that being poor means you can't have a vocabulary or any eloquence. "Oh, Lordy, I don't know any of your fancy book learnings", says Uncle Tom.

Bollocks, mate. Complete bollocks.

You can't proudly claim ignorance as a badge of honour - "Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation" - and also claim to have some kind of great wisdom in all things, as suffered from the School of Hard Knocks with its supposed "Law of the Jungle".

Use your noggin and give a stuff, or why are you even talking here?

Is he somehow less dangerous because his eloquence is more persuasive to those who hold more power?

No, no. He's less dangerous because nobody much gives a fuck what he thinks.

I had to look him up on Google to remind myself who you were even talking about, to be honest. Douglas who?

"Oh, right, that tosser".

He's less dangerous because his "eloquence" proves perfectly unconvincing. He preaches to his own choir, who already believe what he's saying anyway so that's entirely useless, while everyone else pretty much thinks he's an intolerable cunt for his smugness.

Meanwhile, Tommy Robinson quite literally commands what, in effect, is an army. Robinson is more dangerous because he's vastly more effective in his rhetoric.

Regrettably so. But credit where credit is due, he commands loyalty. Or, well, as much loyalty as you can ever have with, as I've covered, an ideological perspective where absolutely no-one is ever good enough and which ultimately always ends up eating itself. So, yes, one has to credit engendering any degree of loyalty from such company.

He's dangerous because, well, you're actually defending him here - on the strength of his "working class" credentials - despite fully acknowledging, in this conversation, that you know he's, one, a racist and, two, dangerous. You've denied neither accusation and offered no extenuating justifications.

Yet you still want to be his "human shield" in this conversation, because he's engendered your "working class" tribal loyalties somehow. While he sits on enough money that he can somehow afford to be a racist cunt as his full-time job. Oh, to be so rich and privileged to have such luxury.

That's why he's dangerous. Very dangerous indeed.

[gravy]

Looks more like it's Labour that the racists are attracted to.

In comparison to Tommy Robinson, the co-founder and former leader of the English Defence League, being a "special adviser" to UKIP and an electoral candidate for them?

Oh, come on. Let's not get silly with this political tribalism lark. That comparison is clearly not reasonable here.

You don't want Corbyn to be PM? Fine. There's a lot of people who agree with you. But, seriously, don't go just making shit up.

There's no comparison because the antisemitism in the Labour party is coming from the middle class. Nobody in my trade union really gives a stuff about the Israel situation, it all comes from the ex-student wing. Tommy Robinson's crime is being working class whilst racist. Would there be such a hoo-hah if UKIP had associated with Douglas Murray? Fundamentally what's Robinson said that Murray hasn't, except without the vocabulary or a plum in his mouth?

Let's be clear, Tommy's from the criminal class.

He's got more in common with a toff done for insider trading that someone pulling 40 hours a week in an honest job.

He chose to defraud a mortgage company, try and enter the US with someone else's passport, get nicked for numerous assault charges. He wasn't made to do it because of how the media treated him.

[gilesgoat]

.... sooooo ... ... back on track ... are we going to be royally triply fucked with :

1. Boris Johnson as PM

2. No Deal Brexit at 31st

3. Libra replacing the Pound despite all the efforts to keep "your beloved currency"

Ending up with Facebook and Google becoming the new Tyrell corp ?

They only need a microchip/tattoo that you'll wear on the hand or on the forehead to let you buy and sell ( via Libra automatic identification login ) and we are done ...

[edit] It was just "a lightly misinterpretation" of the whole story. "The androids" is us, they ( the corporations ) feed on our data and feeds us data, we are the 'new' ( or just plainly very old ) slaves as we always and ever been. "What gives us power" ( some tech ) ultimately enslaves us more than we can imagine, our lives no longer belong fully to us, only partially.

[Absolute_Zero]

.... sooooo ... ... back on track ... are we going to be royally triply fucked with :

1. Boris Johnson as PM

Very likely... though maybe not for long.

2. No Deal Brexit at 31st

I struggle to see how. Even the existing Chancellor would vote his own Government down if headed for a default no-deal. Given the Speaker in place, you can bet a confidence vote would be enabled. Which means a General Election.

Perhaps the best hope for persistent doom-sayers is that the EU gets pissed-off to the point where they walk away; but that seems unlikely with a cards-in-the-air election in the offing.

YouGov today...
Brexit Party 23%
Lib Dems 21%
Conservatives 20%
Labour 20%
Green 9%

A lot would depend on any pre-election deals made, if any... but I can only see no-no-deal coming out ahead at present.

Ergo, Boris' fat arse on the throne would be best served by deal or delay.

[skab]

YouGov today...
Brexit Party 23%
Lib Dems 21%
Conservatives 20%
Labour 20%
Green 9%

Now that doesn't mean anything with your First-past-the-post voting system. Votes for the Greens and other small parties like the Tories and Labour are usually wasted votes.

[Absolute_Zero]

What it very strongly suggests is no majority for anyone... nowhere near.

In a do-or-die election the Greens should get squeezed somewhat to support a stronger standing remain party. i.e. LD

[Harlequin]

… Ending up with Facebook and Google becoming the new Tyrell corp ?

They only need a microchip/tattoo that you'll wear on the hand or on the forehead to let you buy and sell ( via Libra automatic identification login ) and we are done ...

[edit] It was just "a lightly misinterpretation" of the whole story. "The androids" is us, they ( the corporations ) feed on our data and feeds us data, we are the 'new' ( or just plainly very old ) slaves as we always and ever been. "What gives us power" ( some tech ) ultimately enslaves us more than we can imagine, our lives no longer belong fully to us, only partially.

https://theconversation.com/blade-runne ... ture-84973

[zip accident]

… Ending up with Facebook and Google becoming the new Tyrell corp ?

They only need a microchip/tattoo that you'll wear on the hand or on the forehead to let you buy and sell ( via Libra automatic identification login ) and we are done ...

[edit] It was just "a lightly misinterpretation" of the whole story. "The androids" is us, they ( the corporations ) feed on our data and feeds us data, we are the 'new' ( or just plainly very old ) slaves as we always and ever been. "What gives us power" ( some tech ) ultimately enslaves us more than we can imagine, our lives no longer belong fully to us, only partially.

https://theconversation.com/blade-runne ... ture-84973

The book where your TV watches you was 1984. That's the horrifically prescient one, CCTV on the streets is here already, your refridgerator knowing how much food you have left is something that's coming fast if not already here, and the spooks won't allow strong encryption, so privacy is becoming illegal.

[KlaxonCow]

What it very strongly suggests is no majority for anyone... nowhere near.

Indeed. Those numbers would force a coalition.

The Lib Dems and Greens can work together, but that's not enough.

Brexit Party + Tories? Could they stomach it? And, really, that would very possibly shatter the Tory party, as its non-Brexiteer centrists would surely walk. The Tories are already playing with electoral suicide as it is - see European elections for more details - and that would surely be the killing blow for party unity.

Lib Dems + Labour? Ordinarily, you'd think that a natural enough combination. Except that you've got Brexiteer Corbyn at the helm of Labour, so fuck knows. But pure pragmatism might simply force it anyway, as there's no other feasible combination.

And, besides the Greens, all of them are pretty much level-pegging there, so this would not be a "senior partner / junior partner" coalition - as with the Tories and the Lib Dems before - but a proper 50/50-ish split, with equal say. Indeed, who would be Prime Minister in such a half-and-half split? Perhaps, therefore, Corbyn would not be PM, as they'd have to bow to a "compromise candidate" that both can accept. In fact, with the Lib Dems having slightly more in those numbers, it'd be a Lib Dem PM - Vince Cable?

We live in interesting times.