EU referendum are you in or out

[merman]

Jeremy Hunt would have a "heavy heart" if forced to accept a No-Deal Brexit.
When asked a direct question, Boris didn't know what the National Living Wage actually paid.
Seriously, these people don't live in the real world.

[KlaxonCow]

Jeremy Hunt would have a "heavy heart" if forced to accept a No-Deal Brexit.

You're missing the best part.

He said that if small businesses went bankrupt due to Brexit, then he'd look them in the eye and tell them "your sacrifice has been worth it".

What an arsehole.

[VNVObit]

Jeremy Hunt would have a "heavy heart" if forced to accept a No-Deal Brexit.

You're missing the best part.

He said that if small businesses went bankrupt due to Brexit, then he'd look them in the eye and tell them "your sacrifice has been worth it".

What an arsehole.

He forgot “... to save the Tory party”

After all this is about them not the country

[KlaxonCow]

He forgot “... to save the Tory party”

After all this is about them not the country

Indeed.

And the grandest irony of them all?

This will actually conspire to kill off the Tory party more surely than perhaps anything else ever has in all their very long history.

Did you see their local election results? Did you see their European election results?

Have you counted how many members of the Tory party are already openly declaring that they will not hesitate to defy their party, to vote against a "no deal" at any cost? How many have already left en masse - and how many more will do so, when they're lead by Boris like lemmings over a cliff edge?

And how do you think the Tories chances will fare, once - after Brexit, when Hunt is telling them "their sacrifice was worth it" - those who voted for Brexit will discover...

...that, actually, there will be zero reduction in "hijabs on the high street" - their Islamophobia not satisfied - because British Muslims overwhelmingly come from Pakistan, not France nor Germany.

...that, actually, the UK will continue to use the metric system for our weights and measures. Because, for fuck's sake, the entire planet - save the Yanks - uses these units, because they're the scientific units and they make arithmetic easier, so there's simply no way that this is ever going to be undone.

...that, actually, the EU budget doesn't just magically disappear when we pay our UK contribution. It came back, in part, to the UK in the form of assistance to farmers, regeneration projects and a whole host of other things that, under the EU, were apportioned neutrally, based on need, but absolutely won't be fairly distributed by the London-centric Westminster government, who fucking despise the "yokels" of "the regions" and are openly racist "little Englanders" when it comes to the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.

...that, actually, instead of £350 million to the NHS - as the side of the bus promised - we'll pawn off our healthcare system to the Yanks, who'll butcher it into the same shit as America, where they have the most expensive healthcare system on planet Earth and significant chunks of the population have no health insurance at all, and are, thus, simply left to die.

...that, actually, all their flag-waving will be of a flag that their own actions made obsolete, as the Scots almost inevitably leave the UK - and, therefore, the Union no longer exists - and then the Irish re-unify. And though the Welsh have no equal capacity to just voluntarily walk, as the others do, and will be pressed down by the thumb of an England that realises that, when Wales leaves, the very last vestige of "Empire" will be stone cold dead - so they cannot ever allow it - the Welsh will understandably never ever fucking shut up about Independence thereafter.

...that, actually, in our economic desperation, we'll sign up to WORSE DEALS with the rest of the world than we had as a major partner of the largest trading bloc on Earth. We'll pawn it all off for well, well below actual worth, just to have any trade deals at all. The racists will be pissed when we've little choice but to call on the "fuzzy wuzzies" of the Commonwealth to come over here and bail our arses out of the fire.

And, hey, in the end, we very possibly will be forced to concede and rejoin the EU anyway. Losing absolutely all of our previous advantages. Goodbye the Great British Pound Sterling.

Because, come on, does no-one actually remember why the UK - "the poor man of Europe" - signed up to join the EU in the first place?

This will kill the Tories. This will destroy the Union of the UK. And, eventually, we'll be forced - by our own devices - to INCREASE IMMIGRATION to pull our arses out of the economic fire and / or will re-apply to rejoin the EU - "political super state" and all - losing our every advantage, including any power to threaten to leave again. Because no-one will ever take that "threat" seriously ever again.

And Hunt will look everyone in the face and say "the sacrifice was worth it"?

Really, how? In what actual capacity was any of this worth anything at all? What positive pragmatic effect will this have on anyone's everyday lives?

The grandest irony of this entire omnishambles is that the sacrifice won't, in fact, be worth shit.

It won't save the Tory party - it'll murder it. It won't save us any money - it'll cost far more. It won't decrease immigration long-term - we'll be compelled to voluntarily increase it to get as much cheap workers and inward investment as we can. It won't save the NHS - it'll kill it off. We won't have better trade deals with the rest of the world - we'll have vastly worse, because we have to go begging from a desperate position, where the entire planet knows we're fucked. It won't save "curvy bananas" from EU technocrats - because that was never a fucking reality in the first place, you morons. It won't bring back Imperial measurements - it died to the metric systems for pragmatic reasons that won't ever be undone. It won't reduce illegal immigration at our borders - in the EU, we had the French and Dutch and others on our sides (the French willingly had the migrant camp on their side) but now we'll be alone, and you know that Westminster will attempt to do it on the cheap - possibly with a computer system that'll cost billions, not work and then be scrapped - and it'll fail.

I'm not just predicting that Brexit won't work. I'm predicting that it'll have, in so many areas, the REVERSE EFFECT than intended.

"The sacrifice was worth it".

How? Simply how?

[VNVObit]

*snip*
"The sacrifice was worth it".

How? Simply how?

you are looking for a rational argument where none exists. Brexit has, and will always be, an emotional proposition for the devoted/converted. Any criticism or query is dealt with as an act of treason or heresy.

There is a housing crisis, huge issues with healthcare and education, none of which will be addressed or have their situation improved by Brexit, yet onward we march.

If you were going to do Brexit on a rational basis you would look to ensure that the country was in a robust state of being with strong internal markets, supply chains not solely reliant on imports, adequate candidates for health, education, housing, etc. In such a country people would feel less anxious and would probably be unlikely to choose Brexit (and therein I suspect is the reason why it was never approached like that).

Instead the blame has always be apportioned to others (EU in this case) as UK parties (of all persuasions) seem reluctant to take responsibility for how the country got to the state its in and seem reluctant to work with others to rectify (that would require some politic nouse) and instead rely on tribalism (power, so much easier to use) which has a much stronger sway in the UK than other countries, partly attributable to the voting system (horribly misnomered as first past the post as there are more than 2 parties) that allows parties with less than 50% support of the nation to determine the country's future. ( I am talking about Westminster here rather than the regional parliament/assemblies)

The leaders of this blind devotion would happily swap supposed colonial status in the EU (a favourite trope of Farage's) for actual colonial status with the US with lower food standards, privatised health system (NHS days are numbered) and reductions in employee rights (not straight away but quick enough).

there was a sketch in the recent Dead Ringers (28th June episode) where Jeremy Vine is quizzing Jeremy Hunt as to whether he is Brexity enough. I laughed at the time but subsequent days made it a prophetic sketch rather than satirical as originally intended.

[merman]

Boris's latest wheeze - cheaper booze, fags and sugary drinks for the plebs!

Mister Hypocrite does it again, he was the one who introduced a sugar tax at London's City Hall.

Even better, on the day it was announced obesity is now a bigger killer than cancers in the UK, his announcement totally undermines Health Secretary Matt Hancock (one of Boris's biggest supporters).


Both Boris and Hunt pruning more of that magic money tree, going totally against Chancellor Hammond's spending plans...

[KlaxonCow]

May knows that the Union itself is in jeopardy, as she's scheduled a commission into keeping the Union together - convincing the Scots and Irish not to leave - as one of her last acts, due to be kicking off when Boris or Hunt take over from her.

Because with a deal, it might just struggle on, perhaps. But with "no deal" Boris, continuing with his "no fucks given" policy towards "the colonies", it's as dead as a door nail.

[VNVObit]

May knows that the Union itself is in jeopardy, as she's scheduled a commission into keeping the Union together - convincing the Scots and Irish not to leave - as one of her last acts, due to be kicking off when Boris or Hunt take over from her.

Because with a deal, it might just struggle on, perhaps. But with "no deal" Boris, continuing with his "no fucks given" policy towards "the colonies", it's as dead as a door nail.

Without a deal then it's hard border for NI (the only actual border the UK currently has - the rest is coastline) which will require additional security forces.

Sadly for most people in NI the DUP are unrepresentative and have a tendency to be more British than the British
as for Sammy Wilson's comments on what to do with the Irish on R4 yesterday

[skab]

May knows that the Union itself is in jeopardy, as she's scheduled a commission into keeping the Union together - convincing the Scots and Irish not to leave

Scotland: "Blah blah, why not, whatever"

[KlaxonCow]

The Brexit delusions deepen.

The gap between reality and the Brexiteer's fevered imagination widens, with Ann Widdicombe ranting in the EU Parliament that this is akin to "slaves rising up against their slave owners".

You what, mate?

What terrible oppression does this tyrannical EU monster wage upon us exactly?

Standardised weights and measures? Human rights? A tariff- and customs-free single market area?

Oh, woe is me! What evil bastards. How they so maliciously allowed us to voluntarily sign up to it - after a public referendum ratified it - 40 years ago! What beasts! What monsters!

And now the "slaves" are invoking the "exit clause" of the EU legislation that's always, of course, allowed any member to leave, if it insists.

Because this is that other version of "slavery" where you actually voluntarily join it of your own freewill and are allowed to leave at any point you like. You know, that extremely liberal version of "slavery" that's more commonly known as "not actually slavery at all".

Yes, it was good to see the democratically-elected "slave", elected to the European Parliament by vote, following the standard procedures of the Parliament, getting her turn to speak, in order to complain that she's oppressed and waging a revolution against her "slave masters", who had just given her the floor in order to speak.

How dare this "unelected body" - to which she was elected - oppress the British, by allowing the British representatives to stand up and waste time with this bullshit - because, of course, it is their right to be able to speak in the Parliament, even if everyone knows, ahead of time, that it's just going to be this meaningless bollocks (but the EU Parliament still lets this happen because, you know, these are the rules and it is a democracy, so freedom of speech is preserved, even when you know full well these fucking idiots are going to waste it on insane and illogical conspiracy theories) - so that the concerns of British citizens are not addressed!! Mainly because the fucking idiots we send do this pointless shit, instead of actually doing their job, which is addressing the concerns of British citizens in the EU Parliament.

Look, if you don't want to be in the EU, then you don't want to be in the EU. That's fine. It's a valid stance to take.

But, for fuck's sake, this is not a slave uprising - having nothing to lose but our chains. It's not some kind of Braveheart "freedom or death" thing. This is not some epic battle for human rights.

We joined a club 40 years ago. Folks want to leave the club now. Okay, cool.

So where the fuck is this insane delusional rhetoric about coming from? Calm the fuck down, dear. This is not "slaves" fighting some epic battle against Satan himself to bring balance to the Force - freedom or death! - but just a rather boring legal process of leaving a club that we voluntarily joined (and which we were always free to voluntarily leave, as the very fact that we have now chosen to voluntarily leave and, okay, now we're just following the legal process to do that, which was always there as Article 50 of EU legislation to be invoked at any point we liked).

Brexiteers are going to be massively disappointed, when they realise that this genuinely won't much difference to anything, except that, you know, we end paying more for shit because we decided to opt out of the "no tariffs" club. And we won't have these magical trade deals with the rest of the planet, as the EU - being the largest trading bloc on the planet - had the most leverage to negotiate the best deals that anyone on Earth has got. We're never going to get, on our own, anything even half as good as that. If we're lucky. In many decades' time, as this shit never happens overnight.

So, basically, no fundamental difference. Except that everything is going to be a bit more shit, as we struggle along with less money and little influence.

And, as I've covered, on most of the things folks voted for, they're in for a rude awakening when, most likely, this all backfires horribly and they get the exact polar opposite of what they wanted.

They're completely fucking delusional. What the fuck is going on inside their conspiracy-theory-riddled minds, I don't know. They're the perpetual victims - even when they won. Even when they're elected to office to have the power to do something - and then just use it to moan loudly "Woe is me, I'm so fucking oppressed". This is NOT "slaves vs. slave masters" but, heck, even if it was, you've just been elected to the EU Parliament - you're now one of the "slave masters", for pity's sake. Do something about it, if that's the way you feel.

The lunatics are running the asylum, it seems.

[tufty]

The lunatics have always been running the asylum.

[KlaxonCow]

The lunatics have always been running the asylum.

True.

So let us rephrase that as "the most nutty of the lunatics - from the 'special wing' of the asylum with the padded cells, straight jackets and constant sedation, as these nutjobs are a danger to themselves, as well as everyone else, due to their paranoid delusions that everything is out to get them perpetually - are now running the asylum".

But, well, that's not quite so snappy, is it?

[VNVObit]

@KlaxonCow I think you'd appreciate Fintan O’Toole’s book
Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain

It covers the victim delusion in considerable detail and the intentional use of the language of the oppressed to mislead people

Very effectively done by the likes of Boris

[tufty]

the most nutty of the lunatics … are now running the asylum".

IMO, it's mostly not our elected "representatives" that are actually wielding power, but the vested interests that are playing them like sock puppets.

[skab]

The gap between reality and the Brexiteer's fevered imagination widens, with Ann Widdicombe ranting in the EU Parliament that this is akin to "slaves rising up against their slave owners".

I'm curious what they will say when the Scots want to escape the oppression from their Westminster slave owners.