EU referendum are you in or out

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
Post Reply

EU Are you IN or OUT

In
98
77%
Out
21
17%
Undecided (shake it all about)
8
6%
 
Total votes: 127

User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8446
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by KlaxonCow »

Barney wrote:Oooh, Mr Rees-Mogg won't be happy about that - I heard that he was wanting out on Oct 31st due to new laws being introduced on Jan 1st regarding corporate taxation in the EU. Apparently it's going to cost him a shitload of cash if we're still in the EU when that drops.
Well, the EU are introducing extra tax reporting laws and stuff.

But this will scupper many tax evasion / tax avoidance schemes within the EU, as inter-EU transfers of cash become nicely traceable by law.

I mean, it's no "silver bullet" for this kind of thing, as you can route your cash outside the EU and what-not.

But it'll make life more awkward for the rich who're squirrelling their dough away from HMRC and, yes, for some of these rich folk, their support of Brexit, to turn the UK into a tax haven before this happens, has to be considered deeply suspect.

Also, of course, the UK could row back on such laws when we've left the EU, but it'd just be difficult to do so openly. If we're still in the EU (or aligned to their laws - which might explain how everything shifted from "let's get a deal and leave" to only "no deal" being acceptable as the deadline neared, as they didn't still want to be under EU regulations on the 1st January 2020) then we'll be obliged to conform and then it becomes a slightly impossible sell to then push for the repeal of anti-tax-evasion / anti-tax-avoidance laws afterwards. Because what's your argument? "We should remove this law because I want to pay less tax" is not going to convince the people, the press nor Parliament, is it?
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
Cloudane
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:05 pm 0
Location: VRchat

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Cloudane »

So most likely a flextension til the end of January, a few months of fannying about doing absolutely nothing, then a last minute panic followed by another extension. On goes the cycle...
User avatar
Ollie
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4446
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 7:04 pm 0
Location: London
Contact:

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Ollie »

Harlequin wrote:
Ollie wrote:… and only a slightly higher chance of an election this December than next year.
I was reading it the other way around: that they calculate a higher chance of an election next year or later.
Yes, sorry, I said "higher" when I meant "lower". :oops:
User avatar
Rhythm
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 6124
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:57 am 0
Location: Limbo

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Rhythm »

KlaxonCow wrote:
Barney wrote:Oooh, Mr Rees-Mogg won't be happy about that - I heard that he was wanting out on Oct 31st due to new laws being introduced on Jan 1st regarding corporate taxation in the EU. Apparently it's going to cost him a shitload of cash if we're still in the EU when that drops.
Well, the EU are introducing extra tax reporting laws and stuff.

But this will scupper many tax evasion / tax avoidance schemes within the EU, as inter-EU transfers of cash become nicely traceable by law.
You sure that's a driver? Full Fact disputes this claim
Steam: SteelyDamn
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8446
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by KlaxonCow »

Rhythm wrote:You sure that's a driver? Full Fact disputes this claim
Yes, Full Fact disputes the claim.

And then confirms it in the final paragraph:
Full Fact wrote:It’s also possible Mr Christian was referring to another EU policy coming into force next January: the fifth anti-money laundering directive. This will require member states to put mechanisms in place to identify ownership information on bank and payment accounts and safe-deposits. The EU told us that this does not cover bank accounts held outside the EU.
Which corresponds with what I said:
KlaxonCow wrote:this will scupper many tax evasion / tax avoidance schemes within the EU, as inter-EU transfers of cash become nicely traceable by law.

I mean, it's no "silver bullet" for this kind of thing, as you can route your cash outside the EU and what-not.

But it'll make life more awkward
Now, if "Full Fact" is disputing Terry Christian's exact wording that anyone who has an offshore bank account will have to “come clean so we can see how much they are hiding” then, okay, that's bollocks, in the sense that, no, there is no compulsion to demonstrate "how much you're hiding".

But, for fuck's sake, we're talking about Terry Christian. On Twitter. A bloke who doesn't even capitalise his own name on Twitter.

Why would you remotely be expecting pedantic legal accuracy?

As I was saying, it introduces traceability - via ownership information - by law, within the EU, and what a lot of these tax avoidance schemes involve is bouncing cash around from country to country to country, to effectively "lose" this ownership information, so that money can get from one place to another, having dodged scrutiny and all the various tax authorities.

And, as I said, this is no "silver bullet". EU law only has jurisdiction within the EU. There will still be plenty of ways, I'm sure, to bounce your money outside the EU and back again.

(That said, it's worth noting that the US has also made moves towards increased traceability too. I know someone who runs their own small business and the bank has been recently harassing them to provide and double-check ownership details and the like. This is on the back of US laws that have moved in the same direction and the banks have to comply if they want to keep doing business in the US. The interesting thing about this is that the bank's asking details of a UK account for the sake of complying with a US law.)

Traceability is the mechanism here. Because then the tax authorities can follow cash that's being bounced from country to country - following the chain of account ownership - to work out exactly who is transferring money to who.

That's the point.

Although, yes, fuck knows what Terry Christian is rambling on about on Twitter. And, no, as I covered, it's no "silver bullet" for tax evasion / avoidance / organised crime but it's a step in the right direction that every account and safe deposit has to have verified ownership information on it, so you know who's giving the money and who's receiving it. Follow the chain and you're following the money.

It's kind of like eavesdropping on DNS queries. Sure, you might not know what data is being transferred when they get to a particular website, but you do know which websites they're looking up in the DNS. It's the "meta data" of transactions. To look for and spot those dodgy "bounce" transactions back and forth, and because they know who owns these accounts, they can use their already existing powers to force a tax audit on that person, as they now have that "reasonable cause" to be suspicious.
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8446
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by KlaxonCow »

Also, Jacob Rees-Mogg's own face speaks volumes, as Boris announces the bad news to the House:

https://twitter.com/Maxxiimmu/status/11 ... 3296795648
"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
tufty
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 12524
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:52 pm 0
Location: French Alps

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by tufty »

Please tell me we're not talking about Terry Christian that used to present "The Word".
"massive retard™", "full of shit™", "tiny bitch™", "retarted™", "a bit of a one trick pony™", "petty™", "simple minded idealistic twat™", "miserable humourless fucker™"
User avatar
KlaxonCow
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8446
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:46 am 0
Location: A large grassy field.

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by KlaxonCow »

tufty wrote:Please tell me we're not talking about Terry Christian that used to present "The Word".
The one and the same.

"Words ought to be a little wild - for they are assaults of thought on the unthinking."
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
tufty
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 12524
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:52 pm 0
Location: French Alps

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by tufty »

To what depths have we fallen?
"massive retard™", "full of shit™", "tiny bitch™", "retarted™", "a bit of a one trick pony™", "petty™", "simple minded idealistic twat™", "miserable humourless fucker™"
User avatar
VNVObit
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4072
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:03 pm 0
XBL Gamertag: vnvobit
PSN: VNV_Obit
Location: London

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by VNVObit »

tufty wrote:To what depths have we fallen?
the one where people are willing to sign a crap deal just to get it over with even though it doesn't actually get it over with. Logic and critical thinking are considered a weakness/treacherous behaviour.

Hell is starting to look not so bad...
"England is funny, but sometimes she scares me"
Tony Wakeford

My avatar is the cover of Tower of Babel's first single

"Sky is not roof, Earth is not bottom, the world is not yours, you are the world's" from Brown by Grotus
User avatar
Little stoned kiwi
Baaaaaa!
Baaaaaa!
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:05 am 0
Location: Christchurch

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Little stoned kiwi »

Who are you each voting for this Christmas? Double-dare write-ins for Santa.

Crashing out of the EU would have been a better option than this ongoing perpetual bullshit that seems more disruptive.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy.
User avatar
gravy
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 19572
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:28 pm 0
Location: The Other Place

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gravy »

Little stoned kiwi wrote:Who are you each voting for this Christmas? Double-dare write-ins for Santa.

Crashing out of the EU would have been a better option than this ongoing perpetual bullshit that seems more disruptive.
That’s a bold claim :)
User avatar
gravy
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 19572
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:28 pm 0
Location: The Other Place

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by gravy »

tufty wrote:Please tell me we're not talking about Terry Christian that used to present "The Word".
We are :)

https://youtu.be/-hzqy6QM7_8

He’s pretty coherent about Brexit
User avatar
Cloudane
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:05 pm 0
Location: VRchat

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Cloudane »

I just hope not too many fellow leftie-ish remainers fall for the Lib Dems, or the media BS about Corbyn being "unelectable". Yes they're the "party of remain" - because they want to keep everything that's bad about the EU (even us remoaners know they have problems right?) like the hardcore far-economic-right neoliberalism. They're basically Remainer Tories, nothing more nothing less. Abstaining from the vote to protect the NHS from trade deals the other day should tell you all you need to know.

Don't waste your vote on yellow tories. Be brave and vote Labour, Corbyn will do fine. Then vote to remain in the second ref.
User avatar
Rhythm
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 6124
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:57 am 0
Location: Limbo

Re: EU referendum are you in or out

Post by Rhythm »

Cloudane wrote:Be brave and vote Labour, Corbyn will do fine. Then vote to remain in the second ref.
I don't believe Corbyn can rattle up the support he needs and more to the point I honestly don't believe we'd get a second ref with Corbyn's Labour.

For a brief time Corbyn convinced me, he really did. I joined Labour (something I'd never have done - living through Labour during the 90s was painful AF) and cast my vote that he'd be a good leader as a lot of what he said made sense.

But then I saw how he handled his own party. Watched the divisions widen, watched the anti-sem smears take hold, watched cunts like Owen Jones and The Mail and the BBC make him look worse and worse by the day. And watched him fail to respond. And fair play, he didn't play the media's game (much respect), but that was never countered with him doing *anything* else in the meantime. If he'd ignored the papers/TV in order to focus on either realigning Labour or splitting out the Nu-Lab types then I could have excused him. But he didn't. So Labour has stumbled along now for 4 years, scoring worse and worse in any polls. And all the while he's been putting shitty messaging out the about the ref, not making any part of his strategy clear at all.

So, no, forgive me but I'm not going to vote for them if the chance arises. Sorry but I just can't do it.
Steam: SteelyDamn
Post Reply