EU referendum are you in or out

[Rubisco]

Corbyn just looks tired and fed up. On the verge of tears some days. He's just carrying on out of a sense of duty.

But I might still give him my vote if McDonnell wasn't lurking behind him. He gives me the creeps.

[Cloudane]

He's not perfect, but I wouldn't go so far as to prefer the Tories, which is who you get if you vote for anyone else

[Absolute_Zero]

In the first instance: it's not the "fellow leftie-ish remainers" that need convincing of Jeremy's electability, it's the bulk of his own MPs. Who (in their estimation) are desperate not to be the turkeys that vote for Christmas.

[Ollie]

Meanwhile, big baby Boris Johnson is threatening to sulk and not do his job if he doesn't get his way. If this man is electable (and it seems he might be), god help us all.

[Cloudane]

duplicate post

[Cloudane]

Seemingly everyone would rather have Boris than Corbyn. Fair enough *shrug_emoji*

Similar worked for America and they're still standing, against all odds

[zip accident]

He's not perfect, but I wouldn't go so far as to prefer the Tories, which is who you get if you vote for anyone else

Tactical voting is immoral. You should vote for who you do want, not against whoever you don't. To me that "if you don't vote for us the nasties will get in" is a version of "if you're not with us you're against us" and the reaction to that should be "in that case I am against you" every time, no matter who they are supporting.

I'm not in favour of the Lib Dems since the coalition, the Greens are remain and are not Lib Dems though, so they'll do for me.

[VNVObit]

He's not perfect, but I wouldn't go so far as to prefer the Tories, which is who you get if you vote for anyone else

Tactical voting is immoral. You should vote for who you do want, not against whoever you don't. To me that "if you don't vote for us the nasties will get in" is a version of "if you're not with us you're against us" and the reaction to that should be "in that case I am against you" every time, no matter who they are supporting.

I'm not in favour of the Lib Dems since the coalition, the Greens are remain and are not Lib Dems though, so they'll do for me.

even if a vote for who you want ensures the one you really don't gets in. Doesn't seem sensible approach to me

[gilesgoat]

He's not perfect, but I wouldn't go so far as to prefer the Tories, which is who you get if you vote for anyone else

Tactical voting is immoral. You should vote for who you do want, not against whoever you don't. To me that "if you don't vote for us the nasties will get in" is a version of "if you're not with us you're against us" and the reaction to that should be "in that case I am against you" every time, no matter who they are supporting.

I'm not in favour of the Lib Dems since the coalition, the Greens are remain and are not Lib Dems though, so they'll do for me.

even if a vote for who you want ensures the one you really don't gets in. Doesn't seem sensible approach to me

What if there is NO ONE TO VOTE YOU REALLY LIKE ? .. What do you do in that case ? .. you try at least "to vote the least of the worst" or "to stop what you think it's the worst of a situation that is as bad as it can be no matter how you look at it ?".

Seriously what you do when there's NO ONE you'd really vote for ?

[Rhythm]

Tactical voting is immoral.

Nah, it's not immoral but it's not something I'd do. Win or lose I would like the party/candidate I want to win to know that I voted for them.

"Best" case of tactical voting is that you stop a party you don't want to win from getting in. But you still have a winner that you didn't really want to see in place and the person you really wanted to win thinks they have less support than they actually do. In extreme examples of this logic they'd see such a lack of support as an indication that they maybe shouldn't be in the game at all

[zip accident]

He's not perfect, but I wouldn't go so far as to prefer the Tories, which is who you get if you vote for anyone else

Tactical voting is immoral. You should vote for who you do want, not against whoever you don't. To me that "if you don't vote for us the nasties will get in" is a version of "if you're not with us you're against us" and the reaction to that should be "in that case I am against you" every time, no matter who they are supporting.

I'm not in favour of the Lib Dems since the coalition, the Greens are remain and are not Lib Dems though, so they'll do for me.

even if a vote for who you want ensures the one you really don't gets in. Doesn't seem sensible approach to me

If everyone votes against, the party or person who gets in is somebody nobody wants.

If everybody stopped voting tactically we'd only get people in who are wanted. Are Trump and Johnson wanted?

[Harlequin]

If everybody stopped voting tactically we'd only get people in who are wanted. Are Trump and Johnson wanted?

The latter was not elected by public vote; the former was one of only two candidates with any realistic chance of obtaining the Presidency and I very much doubt that non-tactical voting for independents like Sanders would have reduced Trump's result. It would appear that Trump was wanted by enough people to win enough states via their FTP and possibly manipulated voting system. Whether the Conservative membership really wanted Johnson might be another matter but I do not know how tactical voting would operate under their internal party system.

[Cloudane]

No, First Past the Post is immoral - voting either Labour or Tory (or whoever will get the undesired side out if your seat is marginal) is just the reality of dealing with a shit system that gives 2 parties a massive advantage.

I vote Green for local elections which is when it's safer to indicate who you actually like.

[PFVA]

Seemingly everyone would rather have Boris than Corbyn. Fair enough *shrug_emoji*

Similar worked for America and they're still standing, against all odds

If you elect Farage as PM i'll be marching for a Brexit and an immediate one.

[Cloudane]

If you elect Farage as PM i'll be marching for a Brexit and an immediate one.

Thankfully, that's a positive side to our broken voting system: it's extremely unlikely. Whilst it keeps the Greens out, it also keeps sudden extremist far-right populist waves like the Brexit Party out. I think it was either them or UKIP were pretty high in the popular vote a GE or two ago, but only got the one seat, which the Proportional Representation campaign site actually uses as an argument in favour of PR.

Fairly sure they'd need an insane landslide in several concentrated areas to get any significant number of seats, and then at worst would be a secondary party in a coalition with the Conservatives.