Trump

[tufty]

Antifa is a right-wing boogeyman

Yes. there is no "antifa". It can't be a terrorist organisation if there is no organisation. There's no central "Antifa HQ", no "Antifa training camps" in Syria, not even an "Antifa Manfesto". There are local groups, acting outside any central control structure and without any central plan, as they see fit. Outside of those groups, there are individuals, doing what they want to do, and they are "antifa" as well. Much of "Antifa"s action is carried out at the end of a baseball bat.

Likewise the other end of the spectrum, the "Proud Boys" and "Oath Keepers" - local groups, probably very few individuals, *perhaps* more of a centralised command and control. All of their actions, as far as I can tell, involve triggering violence, and they tend to be carrying guns as well as baseball bats.

There are similarities with organisations like Al Quaida - individuals doing things entirely off their own bat, claiming membership of Al Quaida, local radical groups acting outside of any central structure, *except* that they are, AIUI, generally bankrolled by the organisation itself, and have links one way or another back to the central organisation, even if it's through friends of family members.

It's a fine line to tread. But it's pretty much summed up by this, although I suspect the tally on the right hand side might be missing a few :

[gilesgoat]

Yes, I get the point about the Soviet Union - I nearly made a similar point myself but was trying to keep things simple - though I was previously unaware that was a name for the Berlin Wall. There are always going to be examples like that but the main point I was trying to make is that the USA used to be on the side of the Western idea of anti-facism itself.

The main point I was trying to make is that antifa are not on the side of the Western idea of anti-fascism. They're explicitly anarcho-communists.

They believe the only way to achieve racial equality is through anarcho-communism and they believe that the way to achieve that anarcho-communism is through political violence.

Saying everyone who is anti-fascist is Antifa is like saying everyone wearing a brown shirt is a Brownshirt.

None of this is true.

"Antifa" is a right-wing bogeyman. It's a label used to justify the military roll-out, but what it actually means is simply anti-fascist. I'm not saying there aren't anarcho-communist groups looking to perpetrate political violence, but rather that, while they may exist and can be classified as antifa, they are not capital-A Antifa. There's no such thing as capital-A Antifa, in exactly the same way there's no such thing as the horrible tentacly beast residing in the shadows of the closet or under the bed.

.. check the history of Italy around 1970 about the "Red Brigades" and "Black Brigades" .. groups of terrorist/militant communist/etc.

After many many years "it's now quite consesus" those were actually groups "artificially created and supported" by some secret services in USA, the reasoning was that Italy that time was "too filo-Russia" and "much closer to Russia than what it was to USA".

And USA wanted to put his own military bases in Italy at all costs so they created a situation of "the bad communist groups look what they do to you".

Now if you think about it, quite possibly if in those years you would have gone around saying "this is all a master plan from USA to make you feel communism is bad for you and they want to control our economy/etc. " you would have sounded PRECISELY like Alex Jones today .. or sort of ..

But history and facts then proven .. THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY REAL , IT WAS "a master plan" to put a food/hold into Italy and come as "the ones that saved you from the very bad communist here is our HELP".

So if you tell me that USA can "take something and amplify it and twist it for its own purposes/benefits" .. HELL THAT'S WHAT THEY DO *ALWAYS* ALL THE TIME, TO ANYONE !

"America first" OH YEAH when it comes down to money and benefits for them, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT !

https://www.thenation.com/article/activ ... -trump-fbi

FBI report backing up everything I said earlier. Antifa is a right-wing boogeyman, and Trump's excuse to play military strongman in the hopes that somehow it will bring his micropenis back to life. If it's a US plot to create a "Them!" to rally against it's going terribly, with zero interdepartmental communication. I suppose it's not much of a surprise that Trump can't manage a cointelpro operation.

Anyway, "antifa" is a contraction of anti-fascist, just like Pokemon is a contraction of Pocket Monsters. That's it, that's the whole story behind the word, and the attempt to demonize it is going off the rails in the face of concentrated evidence that the violence at the protests is mostly instigated by a combination of white-boy racist fuckers and police.

.. but do you have actually Fascism in USA ?????

Besides we have it into the Italian Constitution :

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/XII_dispo ... e_italiana

«È vietata la riorganizzazione, sotto qualsiasi forma, del disciolto partito fascista. .... »

"It is forbidden the riorganization , in every possible form, of the dissolved fascist party".

It means that any form of re-creation of "any fascist party in any form" in Italy is againist the Constitution.

[SuperMappy]

I could listen to this gentleman all day, he has a great channel.

If he is faking his emotions, which I HIGHLY doubt, he is very effective.

As someone once said we live in interesting times while the country seems to be falling apart like a cheap suit.

[Rubisco]

I think you’re describing Andrew Ngo videos rather than reality. Antifa’s dedication to anarcho communism is ascribed to Antifa rather than subscribed to by it. They’re a highly diverse group of people that it’s hard to generalizations about beyond saying they’re not keen on fascism

Yes I'm sure the black and red flags on their logo simply mean that they're fans of Assassin's Creed IV who think Formula One is too dangerous.

[Harlequin]

Its very hard to escape the conclusion that the only thing Donald Trump believes in is himself. He might have won the Republicans the Presidency, but I'm pretty sure - although he shares a lot of that partys worst traits - he isn't one. Hes a Trumpian.

I agree with the second sentence; I am not so sure about the first. I am quite sure that he believes in a few other things, such as money, power, his innate right to have whatever he wants whenever he wants it and that anything can be made better by looking golden (which, I suspect, explains why he colours his hair and most of the front of his face).

[gravy]

I think you’re describing Andrew Ngo videos rather than reality. Antifa’s dedication to anarcho communism is ascribed to Antifa rather than subscribed to by it. They’re a highly diverse group of people that it’s hard to generalizations about beyond saying they’re not keen on fascism

Yes I'm sure the black and red flags on their logo simply mean that they're fans of Assassin's Creed IV who think Formula One is too dangerous.

I know the origin of the flags but US Antifa is far more likely to be a soc-dem than a Marxist. They’re a direct action group reflexively opposing fascist prescense on the streets and there’s zero evidence of coherent long term goals or organizational structure.

There’s no manifesto and no single point of leadership.

[KlaxonCow]

Trump still excusing racism away:

https://twitter.com/seanspicer/status/1 ... 2854465536

Apparently, "something snapped" in officer Chauvin. Not racism, he just had mental health issues, you see.

And the other officers were "bad" but "in a different category" (not specified), so that's not institutional racism failing to see a problem in Chauvin's behaviour to feel the need to stop him, but just, like, why didn't they recognise their colleague's mental health issues and help him?

No racism admitted to, no need for any policy adjustments. It's just the randomness of an individual's mental heath "snapping" in an unfortunate moment.

(And we're just left to wonder, therefore, why we have so many instances of police officers "snapping" and needlessly killing blacks all the time? As George Floyd was the straw the broke the camel's back, not the only one-off incident. But, no, just mental health issues every time, I guess. Totally random, nothing anyone can do about it.)

Nothing to see here. Carry on, as you were. Business as usual.

[Dio]

I know the origin of the flags but US Antifa is far more likely to be a soc-dem than a Marxist.

Much of the US views those as roughly the same thing of course.

[gilesgoat]

*SNIP*

Nothing to see here. Carry on, as you were. Business as usual.

I wait the day they'll say "The President had a momentary mental healt imbalance, nothing could have been done about it" after his next super stupid move.

.. problem is .. there's high chance he'll still be voted again ...

[F-ZeroOne]

Remember how Trump is so against postal voting because of his perceived risk of voting fraud?:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trum ... florida-dc

[F-ZeroOne]

Its very hard to escape the conclusion that the only thing Donald Trump believes in is himself. He might have won the Republicans the Presidency, but I'm pretty sure - although he shares a lot of that partys worst traits - he isn't one. Hes a Trumpian.

I agree with the second sentence; I am not so sure about the first. I am quite sure that he believes in a few other things, such as money, power, his innate right to have whatever he wants whenever he wants it and that anything can be made better by looking golden (which, I suspect, explains why he colours his hair and most of the front of his face).

I guess I could have phrased that better though I suppose its another way of saying "He only believes in whats best for Donald Trump".

[Harlequin]

Its very hard to escape the conclusion that the only thing Donald Trump believes in is himself. He might have won the Republicans the Presidency, but I'm pretty sure - although he shares a lot of that partys worst traits - he isn't one. Hes a Trumpian.

I agree with the second sentence; I am not so sure about the first. I am quite sure that he believes in a few other things, such as money, power, his innate right to have whatever he wants whenever he wants it and that anything can be made better by looking golden (which, I suspect, explains why he colours his hair and most of the front of his face).

I guess I could have phrased that better though I suppose its another way of saying "He only believes in whats best for Donald Trump".

I think the final sentence probably clarified that for most people. I am just a natural pedant who saw an opportunity for observational humour.

[(o)(o)]

Certainly some people buying into the narrative :

Antifa(scists) being infiltrated by 'service personal' per @gilesgoat comments. This being reported on.

Classic fascist behaviour obv.

White nationalists using protests opportunistically :

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456

Common sense goes a long way here.

But y'know...

Brains.. who is in control of them ?

[F-ZeroOne]

From the BBC:

"US President Donald Trump made a surprise appearance at the virtual Global Vaccine Summit, which is under way now, hosted by the UK.

Last week, Trump severed ties with the UN's health agency, the World Health Organization, stopping around $400m (£317m) in support, after accusing it and China of mishandling the outbreak. There was international criticism of the decision, particularly because it was made in the middle of a global pandemic.

But today, Trump struck a different tone in what was a very brief and seemingly very off-the-cuff, pre-recorded message.

'As the coronavirus has shown, there are no borders, it doesn't discriminate.' he said.

'It's mean, it's nasty but we're going to take care of it together.... We will work hard, we will work strong... good luck, let's get the answer.' "

Its not exactly substantial, but Trump was a favourite with anti-vaccinationists and has courted anti-vaccine tropes in the past.

[gravy]

I know the origin of the flags but US Antifa is far more likely to be a soc-dem than a Marxist.

Much of the US views those as roughly the same thing of course.

A good (or not so good) slice of it, yeah.