EU referendum are you in or out

[gilesgoat]

Anyway seems to me that now "it's NOT ABOUT PEOPLE/immigrants/etc." .. it's all about fishing permissions .. "now UK wants to handle the fish by its own" ..

Which to be honest I *SUPPOSE* "they may be right" but now some other feels like "wait a min, if they start putting up different prices/quotas we are fucked".

In Italy "the problem kinda sorted itself out" .. the Mediterranean as far as I know almost has no fish for everyone any more .. and the Hroatian/Slovenian coast guard since LONG time "has not many problems" to shoot with machine gun - occasionally even killing someoene - fishermen that "accidentally" went beyond the borders fishing into forbidden territories ...

@Paula once you were kidding me about "why the cod costs SO MUCH in Italy" I think you said something like "do they bring it there via airplane ?" .. it could be WELL POSSIBLE, I mean there's NO cod in the mediterranean sea and certainly our fish boats can't get it there ...

Recently a friend of mine got "shocked" when ( before covid ) went to a "TRADITIONAL SARDINES FEAST" .. where LOCAL SARDINES ( fished by the local fishermen ) are sold with the intent also to "collect some money for the fisheries" ..

.. except "they were too perfect" and he managed to slip behind some places where they prepared them ..

.. to see .. LOTS AND LOTS of frozen pre-breadcrumbed sardines .. probably coming from somehwere else but certainly NOT local ..

.. that's 2020 for you ..

.. local ..

"fresh fish" .. yes .. so fresh .. in fact frozen .. probably not even Italian ...

[merman]

We had control of our coastal waters. It was the deep water Atlantic fishing that was the problem, our smaller trawlers unable to compete with larger factory ships.

Of course if Nigel Farage had actually done his job as an MEP and attended more than 1 out of 28 Fishing Committee meetings he might have actually had some influence and done some good.

Post-Brexit? British fishermen trying to sell into Europe will face tariffs (at least 10%) and stricter regulations, making them uncompetitive. Example - 95% of the langoustines caught off the UK go to France and Spain. And even after the catch is landed and processed, the higher tariffs and transit times will badly affect fishermen and their revenue.

Farmers and fishermen who voted for Brexit were conned.

Oh, and if you react to this with "but quotas..." You can get in the sea yourself. The whole point of quotas is so that you don't over-fish and leave yourself something to catch in future. Getting rid of them/ignoring them will be worse for the industry. Same goes for CAP/subsidies.

[gilesgoat]

We had control of our coastal waters. It was the deep water Atlantic fishing that was the problem, our smaller trawlers unable to compete with larger factory ships.

Of course if Nigel Farage had actually done his job as an MEP and attended more than 1 out of 28 Fishing Committee meetings he might have actually had some influence and done some good.

Post-Brexit? British fishermen trying to sell into Europe will face tariffs (at least 10%) and stricter regulations, making them uncompetitive. Example - 95% of the langoustines caught off the UK go to France and Spain. And even after the catch is landed and processed, the higher tariffs and transit times will badly affect fishermen and their revenue.

Farmers and fishermen who voted for Brexit were conned.

Oh, and if you react to this with "but quotas..." You can get in the sea yourself. The whole point of quotas is so that you don't over-fish and leave yourself something to catch in future. Getting rid of them/ignoring them will be worse for the industry. Same goes for CAP/subsidies.

I just would like to add "I never bought a langoustine/prawn/etc. while in UK cause I CANNOT AFFORD IT, TOO EXPENSIVE !!!"

I tend to go for "whatever fish I can find I can afford" so far the BEST value for money was some FARMED breams that are REALLY GOOD, also I found "a really good way" to preapre and cook tilapia that normally is "the fish equivalent of eating a piece of cardboard actually the cardboard is tastier"

Also do people know that langoustines/prawns/etc. are FULL of cholesterol ?

Mackrels .. mackres are very tasty .. sardines too ..

.. in moderation ..

[merman]

"Don't look over here at the corrupt procurement of faulty PPE the NHS can't even use, look at these dinghys with immigrants"...

Only, when we officially leave the transition period and EU rule we will no longer have a legal route to deporting said immigrants back to France. That will require a new and separate immigration treaty.

So not only will sealing trade deals with other countries lead to them demanding more migration, but Brexit means we can't send the illegal immigrants back across the Channel directly.

The Brexit they promised just isn't happening.

[tufty]

Only, when we officially leave the transition period and EU rule we will no longer have a legal route to deporting said immigrants back to France. That will require a new and separate immigration treaty.

Just because we can't land them at Calais, doesn't mean the boats can't go out full, then come back empty. Saves time and fuel if the boats only have to get out of swimming distance.

[Orava]

More fish trivia. Finland has so much wild salmon that about 100 years ago farm workers signing a contract had a clause defining that salmon would not be served more than three times a week.

[gilesgoat]

More fish trivia. Finland has so much wild salmon that about 100 years ago farm workers signing a contract had a clause defining that salmon would not be served more than three times a week.

You "damned rich people" .. Salmon 3 times a week ! LUXURY ! .. ( well unless you are like we were in the past there was literally nothing else to eat - fishermen family, long story - cuttlefish from breakfast to dessert when there was the cuttlefish season ) ..

Anyway "I know a bit the fish thing" .. "fish is like gold" .. actually IS gold .. "easy to become greedy ( to sell it ) when there's much"

Everyone dreams "the good catch" ..

[Harlequin]

Oysters used to be a cheap staple of the British working classes over a century ago, before we accidentally introduced diseases and destroyed most of the beds.

[gilesgoat]

.. it would appear you are "starting to get a very TINY dose ( so far ) of the problem affecting Italy since years" ..

Now when it's Italy saying "we do have a problem" "it's an Italian problem we don't care a shit" .. but now ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53723687

And he's shouting things like "it's stupid to use boats" and/or "almost threatening a war with France if they won't help stopping the illegal migrants" ..

( like if that would stop the immigration flux )

You have seen NOTHING so far, consider yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY that UK is still "quite north far away" ..

Imagine places that have 100 .. 1000 times what you see now .. daily ..

[gilesgoat]

So it's been a while this thread is silent.

But the shit seems to continue, with Boris shouting all time "it's going to be a no-deal, it's going to be a no-deal".

Apparently now EVERYTHING is about the fish, Ireland market anything else, "who cares, it's all about the fish".

Now this really puzzles me, at least how the story is told and/or "if it's really exactly how it's told" which I have no way to know.

So if it's true then I suppose one could/should say "UK is right in the sense it's your territorial waters you should be able to decide the quotas/etc. once independent".

I can't see anything wrong in such reasoning if it's really your waters.

Now "international waters" should have I suppose "international agreements" but local waters should depend about the country that owns them, I can't see anything that wrong in that logic.

Now if the matter is "where are those waters" again in my little knowledge "in theory should be well defined" as "up to X miles from the coast" I am guessing gets really messy if France/UK are that close to overlap but certainly places like Sweden/Norway/Finland are "far enough" not to have this sort of problem ?

I don't know at this point "who is messing more" if it's really UK playing weird or someone else, EU in this case, unwilling to accept "that story is over, it's no longer EU".

Or I am guessing it's more a story like UK "still wanting some things they can't have because it's not EU any more and playing on the fact that if you don't give me this I don't give you the fish ?".

Honestly "logic" would say "you UK forget about those EU things you can't have and you EU forget about the UK fish" ?

Mah.

I don't also, someone explains me, those things like "otherwise fish would cost 3% more" .. and to me it's like "ok wtf does it change for me final consumer if my fish and chip costs to me 3% more" .. it's just a little change .. even "too little" to impact anything ( to me ) given the really SMALL quantity that I eat, I am not stopping to eat fish and chip if it costs me 3% more.

I can understand that maybe "for someone buying tons of cod a day" makes a difference .. but "does it make that much difference" for "the common people" ???

[Whiteball]

Basically the EU thought they held all the cards and could bully us into getting exactly what they wanted while turning down any of our requests. Under previous leaders, they probably could and did.

Unfortunately for them (and fortunately for us, depsite what others will chime in with) Boris isn't going to conceed so easily and fishing is a major bargaining chip. Most people will have heard about the French and fishing but it's actually the Dutch who will loose a lot as well and are quite worried too.

The French do not want the Dutch in their waters instead as they believe it will deplete their own stocks and they won't have enough for themselves. So no change there in the other EU countries only thinking of themselves while pretending to be 'a single unioun'.

Yes, they are 'our' waters so we should and will decide who fishes there as and when we leave if no deal is struck. It's one thing Boris has got right.

There is no point leaving the EU soley on their terms.
If you can only do do what they say and must adhere to their demands then you haven't really left have you?

edit:
Its not that we are demanding things we cant have, it' they just don't want us to have because they want ultimate control and to be able to manipulate us as and when reqwuired. (Germany and France mainly).

[Deckard]

Boris is so so so far beyond shite its unreal - He has made May look competent. Possibly the worst PM for 40 years ?

[Whiteball]

Boris is so so so far beyond shite its unreal - He has made May look competent. Possibly the worst PM for 40 years ?

He's got a lot 'wrong' in some ways, but over the EU he is doing ok. Remember he wasn't the one who voted to leave so don't hang that round his neck.

[(o)(o)]

So it's been a while this thread is silent.

But the shit seems to continue, with Boris shouting all time "it's going to be a no-deal, it's going to be a no-deal".

Apparently now EVERYTHING is about the fish, Ireland market anything else, "who cares, it's all about the fish".

Now this really puzzles me, at least how the story is told and/or "if it's really exactly how it's told" which I have no way to know.

So if it's true then I suppose one could/should say "UK is right in the sense it's your territorial waters you should be able to decide the quotas/etc. once independent".

I can't see anything wrong in such reasoning if it's really your waters.

Now "international waters" should have I suppose "international agreements" but local waters should depend about the country that owns them, I can't see anything that wrong in that logic.

Now if the matter is "where are those waters" again in my little knowledge "in theory should be well defined" as "up to X miles from the coast" I am guessing gets really messy if France/UK are that close to overlap but certainly places like Sweden/Norway/Finland are "far enough" not to have this sort of problem ?

I don't know at this point "who is messing more" if it's really UK playing weird or someone else, EU in this case, unwilling to accept "that story is over, it's no longer EU".

Or I am guessing it's more a story like UK "still wanting some things they can't have because it's not EU any more and playing on the fact that if you don't give me this I don't give you the fish ?".

Honestly "logic" would say "you UK forget about those EU things you can't have and you EU forget about the UK fish" ?

Mah.

I don't also, someone explains me, those things like "otherwise fish would cost 3% more" .. and to me it's like "ok wtf does it change for me final consumer if my fish and chip costs to me 3% more" .. it's just a little change .. even "too little" to impact anything ( to me ) given the really SMALL quantity that I eat, I am not stopping to eat fish and chip if it costs me 3% more.

I can understand that maybe "for someone buying tons of cod a day" makes a difference .. but "does it make that much difference" for "the common people" ???

You will know my opinion - leave the goddamn fish alone !!!

But anyway the " Great British " Fishermen SOLD their quotas - and when you conduct a trade it's fucking repugnant to demand ownership back without redressing the balance... right?

"Any foreign fishing companies that purchased UK quota in good faith would be very likely to sue if this was now taken away from them."

Basically the arseholes in charge are meglomaniacs wanting their cake and to eat it, and any cakes within spitting distance too!

The Europeans are being very reasonable about this.

It's all a bit geopolitical BS anyway.. fishing is a tiny part of the economy and Brexit overall.. it's more of that ramping up of nationalism, and part of that is due to vested interests getting to push their agendas and it's important to note that :



It's all BS.. personally I suspect both sides are tryng to put on a show of hard bargaining, with ultimately Johnson and his cronies waiting for the right moment to pounce and sign a deal and be the hero who saved Britain from No Deal for Christmas .. unfortunatley I can see the public esp the Brexitloons falling for this whilst they have their freedoms taken away. I could be wrong and they are actually braying for No Deal, but it seems doubtful. Anyway.. cod wars.. remember those? (Britain lost)

[(o)(o)]

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