EU referendum are you in or out

[(o)(o)]

The Tory cabinet are cunts who don't care about anything but enriching themselves..

Hints at messianic megalomaniacal complex at the core also, akin to a pathological mental disorder.

@gilesgoat too much detail to summarise succinctly, but describes an apocalyptic dystopian vision of a future where 'net worth' individuals roam the earth from enterprise city to enterprise city, whilst democracy crumbles and everything in sight is privatised and the majority of us suffer - and that this is a shared vision of the forces behind Brexit which is a step toward that goal.

[gilesgoat]

The Tory cabinet are cunts who don't care about anything but enriching themselves..

Hints at messianic megalomaniacal complex at the core also, akin to a pathological mental disorder.

@gilesgoat too much detail to summarise succinctly, but describes an apocalyptic dystopian vision of a future where 'net worth' individuals roam the earth from enterprise city to enterprise city, whilst democracy crumbles and everything in sight is privatised and the majority of us suffer - and that this is a shared vision of the forces behind Brexit which is a step toward that goal.

Well ... what you just describe here .. really HOW FAR is from WHAT WE HAVE NOW ALREADY ?

You don't even need Brexit/UK only for that to happen .. it's happenning already !!!

( and people continues to give 'all their faith' to things like Google and Amazon and Facebook, cloud computing, video streaming, "SW as a service", Fortnite, WOW, e-sports .. etc. .. )

[Little stoned kiwi]

Can the UK make trade deals outside of the EU?

[tufty]

Can the UK make trade deals outside of the EU?

It'll have to. Unless I missed something in the "deal" that allows the UK to trade outside the EU as a part of the EU, and in the absence of any pre-agreement, the UK will be trading on WTO terms everywhere outside of Europe as of 1 January.

It takes a long time to make trade deals.

[Little stoned kiwi]

With the quota split, external countries still have to pay EU tarrifs. Meanwhile the UK has a free-trade agreement with the EU.

It's a bit confusing.

[KlaxonCow]

Can the UK make trade deals outside of the EU?

Now that we're technically outside the EU, yes.

For example, the UK has just signed a free trade deal with Turkey:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ith-turkey

(The terms of which seem to be to just keep things between the two countries as they were before - Turkey's agreed to a continuity deal.)

So it can now be done and there have likely been behind-the-scenes talks with countries to establish what trade deal might be possible, to attempt to hit the ground running, without actually breaking the "while you're in the EU, you can't negotiate your own trade deals" laws. I think that this law was relaxed a bit - the UK can talk about trade deals, but not actually sign them into law - during this "transition period".

Apparently, they've lined up and signed 62 trade agreements in preparation for Brexit. Which is better than nothing, but let's remember that there are about 190+ UN-recognised countries on the planet and, like, not all countries are equal in importance for getting a trade deal with (e.g. we don't have one with America yet, much less Russia or China).

It's a mess. But, in fairness, it's not 100% WTO terms with every country. There has been some effort - in this last year of "transition period" - to establish some stuff with some nations. But, like, when a trade deal with Turkey is a headline story, these aren't as impressive as they really ought to be (no offence to Turkey, by the way, but just a recognition that it's a comparatively small player, compared to America, Russia, China, Brazil, etc. and those are the big ones that need to be made, alongside something decent with the EU, the biggest bloc of them all. Mind you, that's the insanity of Brexit - to be choosing to go it alone as a small country, in a world that's increasingly bigger and bigger trading blocs. The call to "bring back the British Empire" is horribly mistaken in not recognising that the British Empire, as was, would be absolutely crushed in the modern world and that, of course, no country is our imperial "property" anymore and would never sign up to being so. It's wanting to return to a time that doesn't exist anymore, and that can't fundamentally be re-created and, to be honest, was actually a bit of a shithole at the time and would be atrociously poor for the modern era, but your rose-tinted glasses are clouding your judgement).

[(o)(o)]

Can the UK make trade deals outside of the EU?

Now that we're technically outside the EU, yes.

For example, the UK has just signed a free trade deal with Turkey:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ith-turkey

(The terms of which seem to be to just keep things between the two countries as they were before - Turkey's agreed to a continuity deal.)

So it can now be done and there have likely been behind-the-scenes talks with countries to establish what trade deal might be possible, to attempt to hit the ground running, without actually breaking the "while you're in the EU, you can't negotiate your own trade deals" laws. I think that this law was relaxed a bit - the UK can talk about trade deals, but not actually sign them into law - during this "transition period".

Apparently, they've lined up and signed 62 trade agreements in preparation for Brexit. Which is better than nothing, but let's remember that there are about 190+ UN-recognised countries on the planet and, like, not all countries are equal in importance for getting a trade deal with (e.g. we don't have one with America yet, much less Russia or China).

It's a mess. But, in fairness, it's not 100% WTO terms with every country. There has been some effort - in this last year of "transition period" - to establish some stuff with some nations. But, like, when a trade deal with Turkey is a headline story, these aren't as impressive as they really ought to be (no offence to Turkey, by the way, but just a recognition that it's a comparatively small player, compared to America, Russia, China, Brazil, etc. and those are the big ones that need to be made, alongside something decent with the EU, the biggest bloc of them all. Mind you, that's the insanity of Brexit - to be choosing to go it alone as a small country, in a world that's increasingly bigger and bigger trading blocs. The call to "bring back the British Empire" is horribly mistaken in not recognising that the British Empire, as was, would be absolutely crushed in the modern world and that, of course, no country is our imperial "property" anymore and would never sign up to being so. It's wanting to return to a time that doesn't exist anymore, and that can't fundamentally be re-created and, to be honest, was actually a bit of a shithole at the time and would be atrociously poor for the modern era, but your rose-tinted glasses are clouding your judgement).

Yes but generally the chitter chatter about the nuances of deals is mainly for public consumption, isn't it?

Never trust a tory. Fish, deals, it's all sleight of hand.

The important tracts in the Brexit agreement are the ones that enable Tory ministers to basically create any law they so choose in the name of Brexit, without Parliamentary democracy getting in the way.



Do billionaires stashing their trinkets in a pirate trove freeports / enterprise cities / commonwealth dependencies care about paying 40% more for cheddar.. even if they do eat 'commoner' food?

[Little stoned kiwi]

That's pretty fucked up.

[merman]

Only giving Parliament a few hours to debate over a thousand pages of legislation is not democracy, particularly when the Deputy Speaker then guillotines the debate early so Boris can have his PR moment signing a piece of paper.

The biggest problems with the deal?
It doesn’t help fishing - a minimal 2% increase in rights partially guaranteed for five years, with masses of red tape before exporting
It doesn’t help farming - goodbye to EU grants/subsidies, smaller UK subsidies only guaranteed until 2024, many raw or partially processed goods cannot be exported to Europe anymore
No help for services, which made up 80% of our EU business
No support for finance, meaning more companies will move money out of London

And the “divergence” clauses have some big surprises in store for us. Try to change too many of the employment or trade laws to gain an advantage, and not only can the EU impose tariffs but they can also close the gas pipelines & energy grids that keep the lights on here.

Even when they try to present the Turkey “continuance” deal as a big win, the Brexiteers continue to obfuscate and flat out lie about what has been achieved. It’s not a “free trade” deal - the new rules for dealing with the EU will cost businesses billions, and with no say in how the EU makes its laws. A lose-lose situation.

[gilesgoat]

Only giving Parliament a few hours to debate over a thousand pages of legislation is not democracy, particularly when the Deputy Speaker then guillotines the debate early so Boris can have his PR moment signing a piece of paper.

The biggest problems with the deal?
It doesn’t help fishing - a minimal 2% increase in rights partially guaranteed for five years, with masses of red tape before exporting
It doesn’t help farming - goodbye to EU grants/subsidies, smaller UK subsidies only guaranteed until 2024, many raw or partially processed goods cannot be exported to Europe anymore
No help for services, which made up 80% of our EU business
No support for finance, meaning more companies will move money out of London

And the “divergence” clauses have some big surprises in store for us. Try to change too many of the employment or trade laws to gain an advantage, and not only can the EU impose tariffs but they can also close the gas pipelines & energy grids that keep the lights on here.

Even when they try to present the Turkey “continuance” deal as a big win, the Brexiteers continue to obfuscate and flat out lie about what has been achieved. It’s not a “free trade” deal - the new rules for dealing with the EU will cost businesses billions, and with no say in how the EU makes its laws. A lose-lose situation.

Well ... sorry to say but "this is precisely the Brexit that been voted for" and the current government knew it since the beginning ... it's the people that voted that been fooled.

[merman]

Gibraltar now more closely aligned with the EU and Spanish border police working inside the border. They voted Remain by a large majority, now they have easier movement to the EU.

[gilesgoat]

I read that one of the first tweets of Boris been "... and now we are finally out of EU" .. to which Sturgeon immediately replied ".. and we'll re-join it SOON" ..

So .. when are we going to see the independent Scotalnd ? .. and when the independent Wales

Actually Wales "may start to happen" when they'll realise all the money they lost from EU that "UK" does not have for them any more ...

[The ghost of raids past]

Scotland would be a tiny fish in the EU.

[gilesgoat]

Scotland would be a tiny fish in the EU.

.. yes but it still would be EU ...

[(o)(o)]