What would signify the arrival of the next games gen 4 you?

Every now and then a Llamasoftie will say something interesting. Honestly! This is where we will keep these topics so that they don't get deleted.
User avatar
Gorecki
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 5962
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:39 am 0
Location: Essex, home of the Boy Racer

Post by Gorecki »

A huge number of the posts so far could actually be rounded up into one heading: "games that react to what we do".

AI in video games means characters that react to what we do and act accordingly.

Physics in video games means environments, objects and characters that react to what we do to them.

Open and freeform level designs means game levels that change (and hence 'react') depending on how you approach it.

The games of the future will put me at the absolute centre. Not by putting me at the start of an indistructable tunnel with enemies that do nothing but run straight at me, shooting till they're dead, along with NPC's that say what they're scripted to say, not minding one jot if I spend five minutes throwing crates at their heads (heeeellllloooooo Deus Ex:IW). Instead they will do this by putting me in a world in which I'm not the absolute centre but through my actions and the game worlds reactions to those actions, become the centre. That would feel good.



On a related note, something I'm surprised nobody has mentioned is audio.

One of the most important (but sadly often overlooked) elements of a film is actually a good soundtrack. A cracking audio score to a film can really make a difference to the emotional impact of a scene or just plain add to the excitement. The problem videogames have is that due to their level of interaction it's extremely difficult to judge how to score them. Not knowing when the 'Really Exciting Bit' is going to happen means that it's difficult if not impossible to make sure that the soundtrack score swells and crescendoes at that precise moment.

This is one of the things Halo does better than anygame I've ever played and rarley gets credit for. I've lost count of the number of times that the score on Halo has kicked off and gone soaring to it's peak at the exact moment when I'm running staright at the last standing Elite and I've just ran out of ammo and shields. It's a real 8O moment I can tell you.

But for every time it does that they're dozens of times where it doesn't get it right and for every Halo there are hundreds of games that just loop the same audio sample regardless of wether I'm in a pitched gun battle with the enemy or I'm standing around doing nothing.

The next big thing for me will be when the music reacts to what's happening on screen and adjusts the score to reflect this. And not just switching from one audio sample to another, either. I mean proceduraly produced music that changes in real time. So that the score will change swiftly and naturally from 'minimalist, atmospheric and tense' to 'gung-ho and over the top' the minute I kick open the door and open fire with the machine gun. :D

So, for me the future of video games will arrive when the music reacts to what I do on screen and changes accordingly. That'll be sometime this year then Jeff, Yeah? :lol: 8) :D
Tang Sou!
User avatar
Orava
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 12698
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:13 am 0
Location: The West Country

Post by Orava »

NoVisAnima wrote:I can see physics as the next step that games seem to be heading towards. In fact my housemate is going to be doing his Phd on the physics of virtual worlds. But my problem with putting so much physics and so on into a game or allowing the freedom to do anything is that some of those things will be the wrong thing.

Being able to destroy the scenery in such a way that it blocks off the people chasing you is great uptil the point where you realise you left something in that now blocked off area. Or the plot of the level / game requires that you go back (something you might not have realised due to plot twists and the like)

Since i'm a fan of the storys that are being presented to me and my interaction with them to push them forward, i would be worried about having a world not confined enough to have a story work. Being confined to only a certain range of abilities does give a greater rise to puzzles too.

I would like to see in 'the future' a plot that manages to handle you not saving people and it make a difference. On the crowd theme, yeah people that actually did something would be good more of a feeling that the world still worked while you weren't there.
I feel this 'plot' thing is a bit of an overhang from the film industry.

You don't need a set plot, why not make your own fun, make your own plots. Go find some guns, blow up a police station, fight them 'till they get you. Go stalk someone, frame them for an assault of an police-officer, go to the court-case and see what happens. Find out where the mayor/president/pope lives and see if you can assacinate them. Go and plot explosives in 20 tower blocks - all to go off at the same time, climb to a good vantage point and sit back to watch the chaos. You could probably think of good things to do too, I might be too twisted...

In other words, you don't need a set plot, you need a world/engine that reacts to matters in somewhat realistic way. You need hundreds of ordinary people going on with their on 'plots'/lifes - not just nicely rendered cars/people. The richness of this kind of environment will produce all the plots you need - just like real life.

This is probably why, at least, some (many?) people find even the most mundane reality-TV shows more intresting than films/sitcoms. There is a lot about reality that cannot be re-produced in a plot, no matter how clever.

Just my 2p's worth.
User avatar
Gorecki
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 5962
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:39 am 0
Location: Essex, home of the Boy Racer

Post by Gorecki »

You don't need a set plot, why not make your own fun, make your own plots.......You could probably think of good things to do too
How about a superhero game where crime's just happen, wether your there or not. You can choose what crimes to fight and how you're going to fight them. Take out the street urchins or investigate them and follow the trail to Mr Big? Hang around the crime black spots and hope to stumble on crimes, stake out a known target and see what happens or investigate clues and carefully track them down?
Tang Sou!
User avatar
Ahchay
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 6125
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:23 am 0
Location: Londinium
Contact:

Post by Ahchay »

Gorecki wrote:
You don't need a set plot, why not make your own fun, make your own plots.......You could probably think of good things to do too
How about a superhero game where crime's just happen, wether your there or not. You can choose what crimes to fight and how you're going to fight them. Take out the street urchins or investigate them and follow the trail to Mr Big? Hang around the crime black spots and hope to stumble on crimes, stake out a known target and see what happens or investigate clues and carefully track them down?
You bastard.

I want to play this game now...

Cheers
Chris
the bizzarre ratings of an ignorant, deluded old fool
User avatar
Orava
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 12698
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:13 am 0
Location: The West Country

Post by Orava »

Gorecki wrote:The problem videogames have is that due to their level of interaction it's extremely difficult to judge how to score them. Not knowing when the 'Really Exciting Bit' is going to happen means that it's difficult if not impossible to make sure that the soundtrack score swells and crescendoes at that precise moment.
Very true. A long time ago I once played Quake after I had left Pogues CD in the drive. Now, that was surreal.
User avatar
Elizian
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:20 am 0
Yahoo Messenger: niimaur
Location: SE Northumberland
Contact:

Post by Elizian »

limb_clock, in his stats, wrote:Posts: 2000
Image Awwww ... Image ... Fluffy Image sheepies Image
ASCII a silly question ... get a silly ANSI - Bog
User avatar
Mir
Baaa!
Baaa!
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:59 am 0
Location: London

Post by Mir »

Indeed, well done
User avatar
pogo
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 14180
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:28 pm 0
Yahoo Messenger: BrassSparrow
Location: County Durham

Re: What would signify the arrival of the next games gen 4 y

Post by pogo »

koworld wrote:With all the puff and hyperbole around games hardware right now, I was wondering what thing would make you say 'oh blimey, it's tomorrow today!'
Not Physics or AI or graphics. These will just keep on getting better and better, as better algorithms are used, higher specced PCs or consoles are required and developers learn what to focus on. We are still at least decade or so from realistically simulating real world phenomena in a convincing way - even CGI films don't come close.

For me it's probably an unlimited network game. E.g. if you join a network game today there may be 2, 8, 32 or 100,000 people playing, but it's fixed number on a fixed size map or world.

Imagine instead if you still go online to play with other players, and the local world is still finite, but there are portals or bridges to other playing arenas, not just five or 50 but many thousand, changing and growing all the time. So many that you can never visit them all, all part of the same consistent universe but all diffferent so no two players have the same game experience.

I'm hoping someone's working on this for the new handhelds - with their always available wireless networking large scale MMORPGs with powerful server backends and lightweight clients make a lot of sense. IMHO whoever pulls this off something like this, with an enjoyable, accessible experience will change the face of both handheld and online gaming.
User avatar
Mir
Baaa!
Baaa!
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:59 am 0
Location: London

Post by Mir »

You may have a bit of a storage issue there :)

I will stick by what I said, for me the next leap is in the interaction of the PC with NPC agents, either under AI control, or remote players.

To do this well, requires a step up over the current hardware.

:D
Last edited by Mir on Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:30 am 0, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Kemper_Boyd
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 11967
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:15 pm 0

Post by Kemper_Boyd »

Mir wrote:You may have a bit of a storage issue there :)
That's a good thing. The long term trends for storage beat transistor
cost and pretty much every other metric of computer performance,
though the I/O doesn't scale at the same rate.

More storage is a good thing to require, way better than say needing
more memory bandwidth, or even worse being sensitive to latency. :)
User avatar
Mir
Baaa!
Baaa!
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:59 am 0
Location: London

Post by Mir »

Storage is pricey on a hand-held though...
User avatar
Kemper_Boyd
Sheepie Whore
Sheepie Whore
Posts: 11967
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:15 pm 0

Post by Kemper_Boyd »

Mir wrote:Storage is pricey on a hand-held though...
Not really. Compare flash prices over the last few years. I bought
a USB flash drive Saturday, per byte it cost less than the RAM I
bought the month before. Flash is getting cheaper very quickly.

4-5 years ago 10 MB compact flash cost around £100. £100 will
nearly by 1000 MB now. Now I'm not saying that in 4-5 years
time £100 will buy 100 GB of flash, but the trend is still going
to likely outpace most other system components.

Besides once hard-drives make it into cell-phones the price
of portable storage will plummet. RSN :)
User avatar
error
Baaa!
Baaa!
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:58 am 0

Post by error »

i want to see a god game where the people to do their own thing and want to be able to shape the world they live in. i want to be able to posses a person and control them from first person. i want the weather to be real so snow settles and rain makes lakes and rivers that flow down mountains and into the seas. i want the people to advance tech in there own way so they learn to make buildings taller learn to fly etc and control the world they live in with their own style of science, religion and war, i want to be able to zoom out and see the whole world, star system, galaxy and universe, then zoom back in and see the atoms that the people are learning to control, most of all i want too much :wink:

however what i would like to see is god sim that looks like far cry and plays like populous 1 & 2 not like a c&c clone, anyone gonna make one of them? i doubt it :cry:

so i guess next gen for me would be highy organic fully deformable (by fully deformable i dont just mean a height map) heavily populated world
NoVisAnima
Baa!
Baa!
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:39 pm 0

Post by NoVisAnima »

Orava wrote:You don't need a set plot, why not make your own fun, make your own plots.
In a localised way i think this is a really good idea, but having an overarching way of keeping things together rather than just giving the player a sandbox. I believe it was peter moleneux speaking on black and white when he said that what they were missing was something to push the player to actually do something. A plot is a great way of getting something to happen.

I've played sandbox games and they can be alot of fun, but there are times when my imagination is running a little low and i need some kind of push to give me an idea of what to do next. GTA (3 / Vice City) work well in this regard, you can just go where ever and do what ever you want but there is also a story (of sorts) and missions to play through.

A plot line that coped with, for example, you deciding to get the money for the mission by rampaging around killing everyone who moved or by helping the rich elderly women across the street would be the sort of thing i'd like to see.
Dave
Baaaaaaa!
Baaaaaaa!
Posts: 8035
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:35 pm 0

Post by Dave »

Lego Indiana Jones wrote:What would signify the arrival of the next games gen 4 you?
When Duke Nukem Forever is released. Nuff said. ;)
Locked